Can you use treated lumber for signs?

[Rocky]

A friend has asked me to make him a sign using treated lumber. Is this feasible? How does the CW do on treated lumber? Will paint adhere properly in the letters?

I assume cedar is good for outdoor signs. If one uses non-treated wood (like pine, oak, etc.), what is the best type of wood preservative to protect it?

Thanks,

[temler]

A friend has asked me to make him a sign using treated lumber. Is this feasible? How does the CW do on treated lumber? Will paint adhere properly in the letters?

I assume cedar is good for outdoor signs. If one uses non-treated wood (like pine, oak, etc.), what is the best type of wood preservative to protect it?

Thanks,

Just be careful that you are not using treated lumber that is treated with arsenic make sure you are using the new (last 5 years or so stock). and be careful not to use the underground rated treated wood, it also has health warnings, one of my subcontractors I use to use died from inhaling too much of this, of course he was deck and dock builder and cut this type of wood day in and day out. So just be careful, they say they have fixed it but I am not sure, there are still people out there that get an allergic reaction from the dust of the lumber. Just like me and walnut dust, it hates me.
Just make sure your wood is not cca treated, it is no longer suppose to be available to the public, there is a lot a variation of the now CCA-C which is safer for us but not for fasteners, make sure you use stainless steel fasteners or they will corrode and fast. Also most CCA-C lumber and other treated lumber is made from the sapwood of the trees because it is easier to penetrate and treat, so you will have more warping. When finishing treated wood make sure you wait till is complete dry, some times a year. Do a water test, just put a drop of water on the board and see if it beads up, it’s too wet, and if it soaks into the wood quickly it ok to use. Just be careful. I have not tried carving any of the new Trex decking it is a combination of plastic fiber and wood, I know from using it on job sites of mine it does route nicely and looks pretty good, or at least the edges do, I will have to try some with my machine someday unless someone on here has.
I know not much help but I try.
Tim

[Digitalwoodshop]

Rocky,

I would NOT use treated wood in the CW... The new treated wood will rust steel and the dust will more than likely cause major rusting in your CW... I say NO..... Not worth the risk....

As for Trex and the likes... I made some signs from it in the first year and it turned out OK... None since. Had to cover the dark wood with tape so the board detector could see it....

White PVC Board cuts like butter.... Made some LED Signs using Solar Christmas Lights from eBay.

Dropped the Solar website... Had a problem with the 2 AA batteries charging enough in the winter... Put that on hold... Found that 2 D batteries worked better. Too many projects... Too little time....

Wrapping up the 15 Accountability Boards, they are coming out great.... Found a spot on my wood Shop wall to hang the boards for a photo....

AL

[Rocky]

Rocky,

I would NOT use treated wood in the CW... The new treated wood will rust steel and the dust will more than likely cause major rusting in your CW... I say NO..... Not worth the risk....

As for Trex and the likes... I made some signs from it in the first year and it turned out OK... None since. Had to cover the dark wood with tape so the board detector could see it....

White PVC Board cuts like butter.... Made some LED Signs using Solar Christmas Lights from eBay.

Dropped the Solar website... Had a problem with the 2 AA batteries charging enough in the winter... Put that on hold... Found that 2 D batteries worked better. Too many projects... Too little time....

Wrapping up the 15 Accountability Boards, they are coming out great.... Found a spot on my wood Shop wall to hang the boards for a photo....

AL


I never thought of the rusting aspect...good call.

Thanks

[Ike]

I never thought of the rusting aspect...good call.

Thanks

Rocky I have used redwood for 30 years with great results. I stay away from cedar because almost every time I used it I get a head ache! I will make a sign with cedar if the customer requests cedar. One case stands out I made 2 ranch signs with cedar as requested and a year later replaced the signs with redwood and that was 7 years ago and they are still standing!

The key to any material you use is to seal the end of the boards. That is where moisture gets in and escapes. Of course you need to start with dry lumber otherwise you seal the moisture in and the board cracks. I have a moisture meter and check my material even if it is kiln dry.

These source has great info on lumber moisture
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr117.pdf

With any material pine, oak, doug fir etc. if properly sealed or weather proofed will last a long time. That is sealing the ends, sides back and front. The best is what Al pointed out HDU sign board the paint will fade and chip first!

Cypress is a good outside lumber too, guess it all depends on what is available to you and the cost. Just always use good products to finish your signs, don't go cheap I know of sign shops that do and it shows!

Ike

[Rocky]

Thanks for the good feed back, folks.

[cnsranch]

Ike - you're right about redwood - great stuff to work with.

When I lived in San Diego, redwood was as common as cedar. Here in the KC area, they think it should be priced along with gold.

[TIMCOSBY]

test i still had severe peeling of the paint on pressure treated boards i used for trim on my dock.

[Ike]

test i still had severe peeling of the paint on pressure treated boards i used for trim on my dock.

Tim this may be why you have had issues?

Painting Tips for Pressure Treated Lumber

Commercially, pressure treated wood is available as large logs, posts, decks, boards and plywoods. Since they are made for protection against the attacks of fungi, black mold, insects and pests, the chemical preservatives used in the process have toxic properties. Studies reveal that leaching of the chemicals in soil can even lead to soil intoxication. On the safety note, it is advisable to paint the pressure treated lumber for using in applications, which involve human contact.

Painting pressure treated lumber should not be done immediately. The reason behind this is that the preservatives in the wood hamper the paint adherence in the wood surface. In majority of the cases, the waiting period is about 3-6 months. You can refer to the label for information regarding the preservatives. According to manufacturers, staining pressure treated wood prior to painting also helps in enhancing the paint adhesion capacity of the woods. You can stain the fresh pressure treated wood after about 1-2 months.

Though most of the commercially sold pressure treated lumber are paintable, cleaning of the woods should be done to increase the absorption of the paints. You can scrub the surface of the wood by using a stiff bristle brush with soapy solution and then, rinse the wood thoroughly with clear water. The next difficult and lengthy step for painting pressure treated lumber is proper drying of the wood. Complete drying is essential for strong adherence of the paint in the wood surface. Depending upon the weather conditions, drying may require a few weeks to even months.

Speaking about the type of paint, you can use either the latex or oil based products. For using the wood in both sunny and dark conditions, you can opt for latex paints. Nevertheless, prior to purchasing the paint, always check the label, whether it can be used for painting in woods or not. For painting the pressure treated lumber, you can make use of a regular brush or a pad. If available, apply the paint with a sprayer to give a uniform finish. Allow the paint surface to dry properly. This is how, painting of pressure treated lumber is done.

Ike

[Ike]

Ike - you're right about redwood - great stuff to work with.

When I lived in San Diego, redwood was as common as cedar. Here in the KC area, they think it should be priced along with gold.

Jerry that is why I have been thinking of offering sign blanks of various sizes to those who are interested? I have OG redwood and I need to start making sign blanks with my scraps and cracked boards.

Then if there is a market in it I will start selling sign blanks. I also found a source for new growth heart wood.

If anybody is interested and I get enough requests I will be more then happy to sell sign blanks cut to order. Up to whatever width needed!

Here are a few examples including some pieces I have left I used for a last supper.

Ike

[fwharris]

Jerry that is why I have been thinking of offering sign blanks of various sizes to those who are interested? I have OG redwood and I need to start making sign blanks with my scraps and cracked boards.

Then if there is a market in it I will start selling sign blanks. I also found a source for new growth heart wood.

If anybody is interested and I get enough requests I will be more then happy to sell sign blanks cut to order. Up to whatever width needed!

Here are a few examples including some pieces I have left I used for a last supper.

Ike

Ike,

You got my vote!!!

[Ike]

Ike,

You got my vote!!!

Thank you Floyd so may I take your order! Guess I should give a price quote? I was thinking $ 3.00 a board foot plus shipping? Just a heads up ordering just one blank will cost you as much for shipping as for the blank! So the best way to go is to order a full box.

The size of the blanks will also effect the shipping cost. My standard sign blanks are 4", 6", 8" ,10" , 12" by 24"

If you are really interested I will get more info on the estimated shipping cost.

The blanks will be reclaimed old growth RD S4S and clear no knots unless requested and if I have any!

I will try when possible keep the dimensions true, remember in dimensional lumber it as follow
1) 1 × 4 3⁄4 in × 3+1⁄2 in (19 mm × 89 mm)
2) 1 × 6 3⁄4 in × 5+1⁄2 in (19 mm × 140 mm)
3) 1 × 8 3⁄4 in × 7+1⁄4 in (19 mm × 184 mm)
4) 1 × 10 3⁄4 in × 9+1⁄4 in (19 mm × 235 mm)
4) 1 × 12 3⁄4 in × 11+1⁄4 in (19 mm × 286 mm)

That in mind, the cost for a 1" material 24" long is as follow, (longer and wider boards are available)

4" X 24" -$2.00
6" X 24"-$3.00
8" X 24" -$4.00
10" X 24"-$5.00
12" X 24"-$6.00

I will need to get with my UPS shipper for shipping cost.

Didn't mean to turn this into a commercial! But here is the info and if interested shoot me pm!

Ike

[Shacky]

Just curious, how would redwood compare to cedar for sign carving?

Cedar is somewhat plentiful around here and I was thinking of getting some from a local saw mill.

[Ike]

Just curious, how would redwood compare to cedar for sign carving?

Cedar is somewhat plentiful around here and I was thinking of getting some from a local saw mill.


Shacky as forth to carving redwood and cedar? They are cousins and both carve well. I did some research and depends on who you ask both are good! keep in mind when comparing apples there are several types so to be fair to compare apple to apple they should be the same kind!

OG redwood has properties that new growth lack and the same with OG cedar and new growth. Some studies claim redwood have too much natural oils making it difficult to glue and stain. Myself I have never had any problems gluing or finishing.

Then cedar share similar properties as redwood. It depends on who you talk to what is better!

This sign maker wrote this in his web site,

The Redwoods (Sequoia Sempervirons & Sequoia Gigantia) are superior woods: they outperform / outgrow every tree and brush species in their ranges and make the very best wood signboards. My boards are picked by me, one by one: Clear Heart Vertical Grain redwood and a very special "ES" grade, which comes close to the character of CHVG **. Redwood is one of the most stable woods known. Managed thoughtfully, Redwood forests are a sustainable resource.

Our Redwoods are NOT an endangered species.

No other commercial softwood, or any hardwood I know of, produced in North America takes and holds "paint" finishes better than Redwood. Red Cedar doesn't even come close. Because the best boards make the best signs, I Hand Select them, one by one ..and am proud to offer Redwood Signs and Lettering second to no one else's - carved on one of the best outdoor woods in the sign business !!

Don't Be fooled. No matter the spin of some folks out there, Red Cedar wood (Thuja Plicata) is not a superior sign wood compared to either of the common redwood species. Please consider that flat grain cedar (or redwood) with knots is not a better sign substrate than clear heart vertical grain redwood without "knots"---Which is my wood. Look at my sign pictures very closely. Do you see any knots? How often will you find a tiny birdseye? They are rare on my boards. Bottom Line*: No way is a flat grain (or VG) cedar signboard with fair sized knots going to outperfom clear heart, mostly vertical grain, redwood.

Then during my search I came across this about Ipe.

When compared to other woods such as redwood, cedar, or copper chromium arsenate pressure treated materials, Ipe lasts much longer (3-5 times the life span), a stronger resistance to fire, insects, weather and movement while it is priced competitively with high grades of cedar or redwood. By comparison, the value of Ipe is very clearly the best timber product for outdoor usage bar none.

Until recently I never heard of Ipe! I want to see some now! Still my preference is redwood over cedar, from what I researched even though cedar and redwood are cousins redwood does offer more qualities!

Like I posted I made a couple ranch signs with cedar per the customer's request and had to replace them within a year with redwood signs. I made the redwood signs the same as the cedar signs and besides needing refinishing they still look good and it has been about 7 years.

So in my experience redwood is better then cedar. Google a comparison and you will be surprised the results you find!

Ipe is my next research!

Ike

[fwharris]

Ike,

Sent ya a PM!!!

[Ike]

Ike,

Sent ya a PM!!!

Got it! I do need to explain what I mean by ordering a box full! When I UPS a sign it ranges from $8.00 and up for a 8" sign. I use an independent UPS shipper and he tells me it goes by cubic measurements more then weight.

I sold a 4" by 12" sign for $10.00 and it cost $10.00 to send. Why so much here is the other factor UPS ace in the hole it was a rural area address!

So order as much as you want, but keep in mind one blank will most likely cost more to ship! I can also ship via the USPS .

So let me know how many of what you want and I will find the best shipping price. If you need only one blank I will find the cheapest shipper.

Ike