Need some advise on a drum sander

[PCW]

I have been looking into getting a drum sander. I have looked at the Sand-flea and the Jet models. I know KenM has one of these Sand-Fleas and was wondering if there is any dust control on the unit.

Anyone have any suggestions as far as models size 110 would be preferred. Is it better to have a single or dual drum. Help Me Please:D

[Kenm810]

On the Sand Flee the whole table top is an enclosed DD Chamber System that's way more
efficient than the CW units with a Hose port for your Vacuum system.
I happen to like it because it doesn't use a pressure roller drive, so I can feed the Project Stock, Plaques,
or Sign Projects at what ever speed and pressure I need.
I works well for me and does what I want. :wink:

Ps. The power take-off on it is great for running my 4" Sanding Mops

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/Sand_Flee_Drum_Sander/#%3CNo%20anchors%20found%3E

[PCW]

Ken,

Thanks for the input. I'm pretty impressed with this little unit and I think it will suit my needs well.:-D

[Kenm810]

The 18" unit is just the right size for the 14" project boards we use in our carvers,
plus there's no limit to the height/thickness of the stock or item you can run across the drum
so it does a great job as a straight edge sander as well as a flat surface sander.
See if you can find a few more written reviewers about them, before you decide which type of sander to buy.
Their rather pricey, but are built stone solid and are close to the weight of the CW Machine, (also their quite easy it learn to use).
"and that's a helpful feature for folks like me"

[c6craig]

I have been looking into getting a drum sander. I have looked at the Sand-flea and the Jet models. I know KenM has one of these Sand-Fleas and was wondering if there is any dust control on the unit.

Anyone have any suggestions as far as models size 110 would be preferred. Is it better to have a single or dual drum. Help Me Please:D

I can't give you a real review yet on the Sand Flee, because Santa just dropped one off for me.

Initial impressions are good though, machine seems well made and solid. Motor is fairly quiet with no vibration to speak of. Dust collection is excellent, the base is an open chamber with a 2 1/2" dust port. keep in mind in the pics below I had not yet attached my dust collector....

I may need to still get mine aligned properly, or just learn to better feed the wood across. I ran a couple test pieces across and dimpled one of them. Keep in mind though that I am sure it is my fault, I probably didnt keep the piece moving, and I still had the agressive 80 grit that comes installed on the machine. Seems like quick passes and a fairly light hand will be the trick to this one.

Good sturdy fence, nice and thick.

If you are short on space, keep in mind that this beast takes up a good chunk of shop real estate, as it has to be flat. Measures around 35" L x 24" W x 10" H at it's highest points (with the motor and fence attached). I got the leg stands and made my own shelves and put it on some Woodcraft casters so I could scoot it around if I need to.

Here are a few pics for reference...

Good luck,
Craig

[temler]

I can't give you a real review yet on the Sand Flee, because Santa just dropped one off for me.

Initial impressions are good though, machine seems well made and solid. Motor is fairly quiet with no vibration to speak of. Dust collection is excellent, the base is an open chamber with a 2 1/2" dust port. keep in mind in the pics below I had not yet attached my dust collector....

I may need to still get mine aligned properly, or just learn to better feed the wood across. I ran a couple test pieces across and dimpled one of them. Keep in mind though that I am sure it is my fault, I probably didnt keep the piece moving, and I still had the agressive 80 grit that comes installed on the machine. Seems like quick passes and a fairly light hand will be the trick to this one.

Good sturdy fence, nice and thick.

If you are short on space, keep in mind that this beast takes up a good chunk of shop real estate, as it has to be flat. Measures around 35" L x 24" W x 10" H at it's highest points (with the motor and fence attached). I got the leg stands and made my own shelves and put it on some Woodcraft casters so I could scoot it around if I need to.

Here are a few pics for reference...

Good luck,
Craig

Please keep me informed as to what you think of it, I need to get something like this but not sure what yet, this one sure looks nice and sounds great, but I would like to hear about it in a couple months from now.
Thanks
Tim

[c6craig]

Please keep me informed as to what you think of it, I need to get something like this but not sure what yet, this one sure looks nice and sounds great, but I would like to hear about it in a couple months from now.
Thanks
Tim

I'm not sure how long Ken has had his, but he seems pretty happy with it. (see below posts) Either way, I will post more after I use it for a while.

Good luck,
Craig

[Kenm810]

Here's a few photos I posted from last February
showing the units power take-off and a sanding mop
I've also on occasion, connected one of my flex-shaft
sanding tools to it with good results "Tons of Power".
Also for scale and size the one photo has my carver next to the Sand-Flee,
and neighter are really light weights.

Ps. Greig most of my sanding I do is with 220 Grit or 120 Grit,
and find it really convenient to be able to switch back and forth between Grits with out wasting any Sand paper.
And yes you will get a feel for the proper hand pressure and feed rate in very short order. :wink:

[PCW]

What I like about the Flee is it's simplicity. Single Baldor motor and a .250 plated steel top. I also like the fact that it uses velcro paper on the drum as well as the option to do half wraps (coarse/fine). Most other machines are 400# and up so 85# seems welcome. You can even edge joint with it because of the open top design.

To top it off you have a power take off for a sanding mop.

[lawrence]

If you keep an eye on craigslist the Jet/Performax 16/32's come up pretty darned often for a song... I got one with about 15 minutes use on it for $350 a while back and it came with outfeed tables and a once-used set of sandpaper (and the changing tool) I really (really) like the ability to use it "planer style" to remove snipe/etc from my boards. It also works really well to remove paint from carvewright carvings. I seem to see the performax's come up about once a month here in tucson for around $400 used... (and once a 22x44 industrial for $550... I was really tempted but 32 is plenty for me)

Good luck and have fun
Lawrence

[Digitalwoodshop]

I see a Sand Flee in my shop next year.....

Looks GOOD.....

AL

[DocWheeler]

Dan,

I'm no expert, but I had a similar decision. I chose a 16/32 sander for two main reasons, the Flee would require two hands and I did not have a planer (nor room for both planer and sander). I have been happy with it, although I do not look forward to changing sandpaper with my physical limitations - doable, but frustrating at times (same problem with either sander).

As KenM pointed out, the Flee can handle the dust it creates, with the more powerful sander that removes more material, you need a DC system. I am in the midst of plumbing my DC to the rest of my shop.

With the 16/32 (or a 22/44) you can create 3/4" stock from 4/4 material fairly easily and it will have uniform thickness.

Just my two cents worth.

[HighTechOkie]

I've heard some complaints about the smaller 16/32 cantilever style drum sanders producing a tapered board. I suppose it is an issue of the guy trying to take off too much material at one time. It just means you have to take a few more passes if you are trying to thickness sand.

For all that these are, I have looked at building a thickness drum sander with a top cover/dust collector that could be removed and placed on the bottom side to use the top like the Sand Flee.

I'd probably use some 4" PVC, Make a couple end caps with 1/2" center hole done on the CW. Fill PVC with a couple cans of spray foam to make it a bit more rigid w/o increasing the weight significantly.

Find a cheap table saw on craig's list for the 1-1.5 horse motor. ~$50
Pick up a set of link belts from harbor freight (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=43771) (cheapest place for them)

Maybe another $150 in wood, screws, velcro hook material, bearings and pulleys and you have a nice dual purpose sander for thickness and finish sanding.

I would probably build it 30" to accommodate 15" 120 and 220 grit on it at the same time. There are some great threads on Sawmillcreek.org on diy drum sanders.

Rob

[luckettg]

I...For all that these are, I have looked at building a thickness drum sander with a top cover/dust collector that could be removed and placed on the bottom side to use the top like the Sand Flee.....
Rob
Rob, you have a good idea. It is obvious that the drum sanders are way, way over priced, like many of the other tools we buy now use to be. Remember when thickness planers were priced like that? A smart company would drop it price down to the $300 level and sell based on volume profit.
Greg
Michigan

[liquidguitars]

this one is ok for the price.. BTW the Carvewright with a drum sander is a good combo..
also I like having a belt feed as you do not need to push the wood..


http://www.grizzly.com/products/18-1-1-2-HP-Single-Phase-Open-End-Drum-Sander/G0458

[kenerv1]

I've had a 16/32 [check that 18/36]for several years and I think I would give up my table saw ahead of the drum sander. My planer now sits idle except for heavy duty thicknessing. I've not seen a problem with tapering using reasonable (and adequate) pressures.

PROS.
1. It does a wonderful job of both rough and defect free surfacing and finish (220) sanding.
2. Feed conveyor speed is infinitely selectable.
3. When connected to a dust collector, saw dust emissions are minimal.
4. Uniform thicknessing and parallel surfacing is automatic, I wonder how these could be controlled with a sand flea.
CONS:
1. Changing paper is a bit of a hastle at first, but you catch on quickly,
2. once in a while paper wants to come loose after a lot of use on the paper.
3. a bit noisy and takes some space.
4. Watch out for gum/pitch accumulation on paper,-- will quickly burn the stock and ruin the paper.

[luckettg]

this one is ok for the price.. BTW the Carvewright with a drum sander is a good combo..
also I like having a belt feed as you do not need to push the wood..
http://www.grizzly.com/products/18-1-1-2-HP-Single-Phase-Open-End-Drum-Sander/G0458

$1000 is not a bad price? I completely disagree with that, but will be glad to sell you my Dewault planer for that price if you like....:)

IMO: We, wood workers, need to stand up to the manufacturers and push them to lower the prices for drum sanders or we will forever be paying very high prices, like planers use to be.

[liquidguitars]

luckettg, I think i paid 750.00 a few years ago.. :mrgreen:

I looking for a smaller size sander right now for guitars and would love to build it myself but i have no working plans..

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Stroke-Sander/G5394




$1000 is not a bad price? I completely disagree with that, but will be glad to sell you my Dewault planer for that price if you like....:)

IMO: We, wood workers, need to stand up to the manufacturers and push them to lower the prices for drum sanders or we will forever be paying very high prices, like planers use to be.

[luckettg]

I have not started looking yet, but have found plans for all sorts of things doing Google searches. I wonder if there might be one in some of the old books on my shelf? These drum sanders are not very complicated machines and should be easy enough to design one from scratch using junkyard and/or off the shelf parts. For that matter, an old joiner would work similar to a Sand Flee, with a bit of modification.

I am still thinking about your idea of combining one with the CW and have not reached any conclusions yet. I can see advantages to it, but I do a lot of other projects that require sanding that a stand alone drum sander would be better.

[Kenm810]

If you really are interested in building your own Drum Sander
here's a couple of videos with helpful info to help you along.
plus I sure there's several other "how to" ideas online. :wink:

http://www.theonlinewoodshow.com/show/company.php?number=20102&cat=1&prod=DVD001

[Chief]

Can someone explain how a stroke sander works? I've never heard of one and the pictures at the Grizzly site don't help any.

Chief

[liquidguitars]

stroke sander is not used that much anymore as a good quality drum sander has made it obsolete, however in some cases the stroke sander works well for 3D shapes like Guitars. Basically you move the table and press down on the belt to smooth a surface in my case a carved top.

http://guitarguru.typepad.com/my_weblog/images/2008/03/10/mike_sanding.jpg


Here is a big hand made one :)
http://www.thewoodshop.20m.com/graphics/sander1.jpg

[Kenm810]

Hi Chief,

Stroke sander: A large production sander that uses a hand-operated “platen” on a standard sanding belt to apply pressure.
For large surfaces such as tabletops, doors, and cabinets

Main Entry: Platen

a flat plate; especially one that exerts or receives pressure
(as in a printing press or the roller of a typewriter or printer

[Eagle Hollow]

I picked up a 22/44 Performax at auction for $360. Wouldn't consider giving it up because I use it nearly every day I'm in the shop.

As far as tapering, reverse the board each trip through and go easy on the pressure.

I use 80 grit and finish with desired grits on random orbital sanders.

Most dust is picked with the 1350 cfm dust collector.

Personally, I prefer using my planer for removing paint overspray on my CW projects.

Jerry C.

[Chief]

LG & Ken,

Thanks, guys. I think I'll pass on one of that biggie.

A link earlier in this thread to the Online Woodshop gave me an idea to try to design one to work with my Shopsmith. It has plenty of power but the important thing is that a weight problem wouldn't exist. I probably can design on to stand on its own end. I know it can be made very small.

Chief

[Digitalwoodshop]

If you can find it... I was at the Philly Wood Show many years back and a guy sold the roller covered in Velcro and the bearings and pulley to make your own Sand Flee. He uses a board on a hinge with two wood screws to make the table adjustment....

AL

[mostlycold]

I have both the Sand Flee and a Performax and use them both very often. There is a sand flee specifically manufactured for Shop Smith (although I have the stand alone model) and the dust control is the best design I've ever seen (it's about 75% effective without the dust collector turned on). Well made and I like the ability to run 3 grits at once. This is not a thickness sander, so if that is what you want, you should look at the drum sanders or planers. What makes this machine so great (IMHO) is the ability to micro adjust the sandpaper just slightly above the table surface, so only the paper is doing the sanding and not your wrists or the roller. This is an important feature of this machine and the only pressure you should apply is the to control the backward momentum (drum is turning at you) of the workpiece and should never "bear down" on the object being sanded (like the guy in the video said "let the sandpaper do the work"). I found the slight height adjustment and not leaning on the workpiece while sanding to be the biggest habits I needed to break. Changing the sandpaper role comes with an instruction sheet and, unless you're one of those people that can think in disproportional 3D, you should take care not to lose them.

For the build your own folks, if you Google "DIY Drum Sanders" you will get plans from more places than you can imagine. There's a guy in Texas that makes one with an old washing machine motor and other sundry parts. If you go to the Ringmaster forum on yahoo, a lady named Tita Wilson has designed a pretty nice diy unit as well.

Someone above mentioned the cantalever design on the drum sanders. I checked this out when I was buying mine and the end result is that this was more of a marketing debate between the big two in the business and the outer edge of one construction technique over the other was bordering the nether zone based on what the machines are designed to do. More issues seem to arise when folks don't take time to correctly adjust the drum when they take them out of the box (btw, digital levels are perfect for this - zero it on the bed, then put it up on the drum and tune it back to zero). The result is a drum perfectly level to the bed.

Anyway I really like the sandflee and the Performax, but it's important to remind potential buyers that one is not a replacement for the other and they both do the job they were designed for very well.


Hope this helps anyone who's trying to decide,
Dan

[Kenm810]

Hi AL,

I think I ran in to the same guy a couple of times at wood worker shows here in Michigan.
I think He's still around, and out there somewhere sell parts and plans for Drum Sanders

Here's some stuff I ran across if anyone wants to read a little more about building your own.
I see StockRoom Supply sells parts and has the plans to go with them.

http://www.stockroomsupply.com/18_plan.pdf
http://www.stockroomsupply.com/Products.php
http://www.stockroomsupply.com/BasicDrumSanderInst.pdf


Ps. And Thanks Dan for the info and in sight on the Drum Sanders

[lawrence]

just to throw in a couple more cents... for the tapering I just keep my sander adjusted ... very easy with MDF and chalk (rub chalk on mdf, sand, adjust... put in a new piece with chalk, sand, adjust... done I've only had to do this 3 or 4 times in well over a year of use

I recently saw an article in a mag about making a cover for your performax to make it function like a sand flee by making a box for the drum (*and turning off the belt of course) It seemed like a good way to go for large boxes etc though I usually just turn to my belt sander for items that large

Lawrence

[WRW]

Hi PCW
I have been useing the stockroom supply flatmaster drum sander a couple of months now and find it very useful and will be trying the tip posted by lawrence as I know I do not have it perfectly ajusted yet. I bought the 30" kit so that I only had to, add (buy) motor and dust collection port, assemble and sand. Also uses velcro paper on the drum as well as the option to do half wraps (coarse/fine), dust collection works great.
http://www.stockroomsupply.com/Flat_Master.php

Thanks for the Tip Lawrence

[Chief]

Dan & Ken,

I've spent the last hour or two looking at all of the options. Shopsmith's Sand Flee looks great but I can't see spend $450 for an aluminum box and a drum but that's typical for Shopsmith which is why the only auxiliary tool I have is the bandsaw and belt sander. I do think I gained enough from looking at the pages that it shouldn't be too hard. And I have a friend who has a complete metalworking shop.

Thanks for the info, guys. It's just what I was looking for.

Chief

[chkorte]

I bought a drum sander kit like the Sand Flee at Stockroom Supply.
http://www.stockroomsupply.com/
I didn’t like it and found a Performax 10X20 drum sander used for $300.
Another thing I bought from Stockroom Supply was a sanding mop. That I wouldn’t be without, I have 2 of them 120 grit and 240 grit.

[Chief]

Dan,

I like the one that Shopsmith has and it would work for me. However, having said that, I think the price is a rip off. On the other hand, I don't have much space for anything in my shop. All of my tools and cabinets are on wheels and it sometimes becomes a dance just to get the tool I need out where there's a few feet to work.

My older son asked me to make a shelving unit for him to store all the different kinds of paper he keeps in his computer room. I was on one side of the worktable and he was on the other side and neither of us could move more than a foot in any direction. I either have to buy a new house with a 2-3 car garage or put an addition onto my basement.

Chief

[luckettg]

I bought a drum sander kit like the Sand Flee at Stockroom Supply.
http://www.stockroomsupply.com/
I didn’t like it and found a Performax 10X20 drum sander used for $300.
Another thing I bought from Stockroom Supply was a sanding mop. That I wouldn’t be without, I have 2 of them 120 grit and 240 grit.

I like this one and am thinking of the largest one for my shop. Thanks for the lead!:)
Greg

[mostlycold]

Dan,

I like the one that Shopsmith has and it would work for me. However, having said that, I think the price is a rip off. On the other hand, I don't have much space for anything in my shop. All of my tools and cabinets are on wheels and it sometimes becomes a dance just to get the tool I need out where there's a few feet to work.

My older son asked me to make a shelving unit for him to store all the different kinds of paper he keeps in his computer room. I was on one side of the worktable and he was on the other side and neither of us could move more than a foot in any direction. I either have to buy a new house with a 2-3 car garage or put an addition onto my basement.

Chief

Chief,

I don't disagree with you on the Shopsmith premium pricing policy, but if you don't have the space, they do make a workshop in an 18sf area possible. Personally, I'd go for the new house and if you want to share parking and a shop, do what I did - go with an attached 1150sf, 5 car! Best money I ever spent and it had nothing to do with ROI :>)

[Chief]

Dan,

I recently had a chance to pick up a beautiful house for $162k. It was perfect as far as physical condition and exactly what I needed. It also had a 2-car garage and a separate 1-car garage. However, my wife has COPD and she thinks she'll need a lung transplant so, until I can get that idea out of her head, I'm doomed to stay where I'm at.

I live in Pittsburgh and the lots in my neighborhood are 30x100 so I don't have the space to build any garages/workshops. If I did, I would add onto the house something like you did. My 2 sons and I could put that up in a week. Setting up the shop???? That might take months.

Chief

[PCW]

I want to thank everyone that took the time to reply to this post. It was great to see all the differant opinions.

It was a hard choice to make between the power feed sander and the Sand-Flee. I decided on a Performax SuperMax 25"x2 double drum sander. It was lightly used and has a 5 hp 220 motor. It was delivered yesterday and I checked it out and lubed it and ran some boards today and it is totally awesome sander.

I will still keep my eye out for a used Sand-Flee or make one when I have some time. :D

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo54/pcwholesale/Carvewright/SuperMax25x2DrumSander.png

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo54/pcwholesale/Carvewright/SuperMax25x2DrumSander2.png

[lawrence]

Man, that is gorgeous... and a DUAL DRUM sander to boot....


Lawrence

[bowfingers]

Wow looks like you got a great machine!
Hope it works as good as it looks!