z axis stall 299

[easybuilt]

I keep getting a z axis stall 299 during my carve. The carve is doing fine and the bit is not getting stuck. I cleaned the rail, the flex. cable is still turning and the cutting motor is doing fine. I don't know what to check. I was watching it cut and it just stopped. I changed memory cards. Any thoughts what to check before I call tech support tomorrow? Any suggestions would help. Thanks!

[fwharris]

Tom,

I think some have reported getting this error and when they put in a new bit the error went away. Thinking is that it was a dull bit.

[c6craig]

If I'm not mistaken (which I probably am :) ) the Z axis stalls are the forward and backward movement. Have you checked to make sure your rubber O ring is in place? The board is moving freely? If your board is cupped or warped it may be binding and not able to move freely enough that it is throwing the error....you can also try some masking tape under the board where the roller contacts in case the board is slipping from the tracking wheel...

I'm sure someone else will post up with some better ideas but that may give you something to brainstorm on...

Good luck and happy carving,

Craig

[c6craig]

Tom,

I think some have reported getting this error and when they put in a new bit the error went away. Thinking is that it was a dull bit.

Dull bit makes sense too...too much stress any which way and the machine will just freak out and stop, giving you a lovely gift of an error code :)

Craig

[easybuilt]

Thanks! I will try a new bit. Never thought of that. I used a new board and always use masking tape.

[fwharris]

Give it a try and let us know how it does...

[easybuilt]

A new bit didn't work. I tried one of Ron's bits and it stopped as soon as it went to new surface. Here is a photo. I am carving one of the joy tree. I tried this one since I was having the same problem with another projest. Any more help would be appreicated. Thanks.

[fwharris]

Are your Y and Z belts tight? Just throwing things up as possible ideas. Was doing some stall searches and that was one solution..

[Eagle Hollow]

My "z" stall problem was fixed by removing the back of the z motor and cleaning the saw dust from around the encoder disc.

[easybuilt]

I will those ideas a try and let you know if it works. Thanks!

[mtylerfl]

A new bit won't help z-axis errors - it's Y-axis errors that are generated by a dull bit.

I notice you are using the Rock chuck. I have been receiving a lot more calls from folks experiencing z-axis errors over the last few months. Guess what? Every one of them have been using the Rock chuck.

In all cases (so far) it is a bit mounting issue that causes the z-axis problems. Usually the bit is slipping in the chuck. I'm not absolutely confident this is the source of your particular problem, but it is very possible.Try contacting Ron directly and see if he has any suggestions to help you troubleshoot whether the Rock is the root of the problem or if you can eliminate that as the source.

[liquidguitars]

The Rock will give you a error if the bit is set to low so it better to chuck it up a tad and turn the set screw hard.

regarding your stall, check your bearing and rods next, all 4 bearing on the truck in z should move freely and at the same time, the old QC could have damaged them before you installed the Rock or just drit in the races.

LG

[rjustice]

A new bit won't help z-axis errors - it's Y-axis errors that are generated by a dull bit.

I notice you are using the Rock chuck. I have been receiving a lot more calls from folks experiencing z-axis errors over the last few months. Guess what? Every one of them have been using the Rock chuck.

In all cases (so far) it is a bit mounting issue that causes the z-axis problems. Usually the bit is slipping in the chuck. I'm not absolutely confident this is the source of your particular problem, but it is very possible.Try contacting Ron directly and see if he has any suggestions to help you troubleshoot whether the Rock is the root of the problem or if you can eliminate that as the source.

Hi Michael,
Could you clarify for us what this particular Z axis error code indicates?... My undersanding is that it is, "generally speaking", an overload of the axis. In other words the motor is working harder than it should to move the "Z" truck up and down. It seems quite unlikely to me that if a bit is slipping, that the "Z" axis would push up or down too hard? In fact if it isnt tight, it would slip and move easier if anything. In reference to the "Global statement" that the Rock Chuck has caused every "Z" axis problem that you have been involved in is perhaps a little unfair... I have had 3 cases where customers have emailed or called me with a problem that was caused by a clamping problem. 2 of them were due to not clamping the sleeve with the slit pointing in the direction of the clamp nut. In those cases the bit was making a squeeling noise because it was slipping in the sleeve. The other one was due to clamping into one of the flats on the tools. In this case the main problem was that they couldnt get the tool in and out of the chuck smooothly. I have not heard of anything causing a "Z" error till now. This is 8 months later and many many chucks later. Tightned properly, the clamping pressure that is exerted on the tool is significantly more than necessary. I'm not sure if you have noticed or not, but there has been a major drop in the number of posts about having problems with a chuck. It was almost a daily topic 8 months ago. I can only think of one post where there was a "problem" type post about the Rock Chuck (by a user of the chuck) in the last 8 months, but there are still plenty of problems getting posted about the QC. Pretty much the same problems that i personally had, resurfacing over and over again..... Sorry but i had to get that out.

As for the problem described in the OP, I would turn off, and unplug the machine, and let the power dissipate for a few minutes and try moving the "Z" axis up and down to it's full extremes, and see if it feels tight in any one spot. If there is a tightness, I would first inspect the cog belt to see if there is any sawdust built up in either the belt cogs, or even the pulleys. Also look to see if there is any sawdust packed behind the cog pulleys as well. Clean them out well if you find something, and repeat the motion test. If they are clean I would then look to the bearings that ride on the rails to see if any of them are locked up and skidding rather than rolling on the rails. Be sure that the rails are smooth and clean, and make sure the rollers are spinnning freely. Again, clean anything up, that has buildup, and test again.

Let us know how you come out!...

Also keep in mind that I am on a mission for everyone to be completely satisfied with the Rock Chuck system. If you have a problem with it, please feel free to contact me.

Happy Carving,

Ron

[PCW]

Hi

My problems with Z stall's has always been mechanical related to the machine. Last week I had a stall ended up being the 14 PIN flat cable from the Z to Y terminator board.

On the back of the Z Motor there is a screw that holds a black cover where the ribbon cable and board sensor plugs into. It is easier to remove the cover to make sure the cable is seated good. Also check the other end of the cable to make sure it is seated as well.

One word of advise unplug your machine before removing and inserting the cable. Could fry your $300.00 controller.

Another thing you can do is a sensor test (0 then 7 on the keypad down arrow 3 times) go to the Z position test and move the Z trunk up and down to see if the numbers are changing. Also check for resistant on the Z travel. It should be hard to move with the power on.

[AskBud]

Just my 2 cents worth!
I think you may get a Z-Axis error, it the bit is not extending out of the chuck enough. The "Z" can only drop down so far. If the bit does not extend out of the chuck enough, the Error message is very possible. When it measured the bit on the Touch Plate, it set a "Zero" point and will try to drop/lower deep enough to meet your depth setting for that carve and thus fail.

I'm probably too wordy!
AskBud

[rjustice]

Just my 2 cents worth!
I think you may get a Z-Axis error, it the bit is not extending out of the chuck enough. The "Z" can only drop down so far. If the bit does not extend out of the chuck enough, the Error message is very possible. When it measured the bit on the Touch Plate, it set a "Zero" point and will try to drop/lower deep enough to meet your depth setting for that carve and thus fail.

I'm probably too wordy!
AskBud

Not too wordy at all Bud. It made perfect sense to me. I went out to my machine and checked the travel. If i take the bit out of my chuck, i can actually just touch the top of the board with the face of the chuck. This means that you would have to bury the cutting bit all the way to touching the face of the bit adapter to have it bind up due to over travel. So, i dont think this is a possible problem. (At least due to the axis binding up) I say this assuming that the error code stated is a "stall" due to excess pressure.

I do recall other posts in the past that are in line with what Dan (PCW) described as well... I think start with the easiest things first though.. It will only take a minute to check whether the axis moves freely up and down with the power off... This will tell you a lot. Also just a quick visual to see if the bearings are rolling properly on the rails.... Maybe also try to roll the bearings one at a time with your finger, while you hold the "Z" truck stationary. They should be tight enough to not slip, and spin on the rail as you do this.

Ron

[easybuilt]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I have not solved the problem yet. I call LHR tech's twice today. We cleaned out the z motor, checked the teeth inside the motor, checked the x and z readings and found no problems, tightened the belt. I reformated the card, and uploaded the "joy tree" again. Restarted the cut and I thought the problem was solved because it went an additional inch, but stoped again with a "z" error. It always stops about a inch from the left side when it is going right. After all my calls today LHR decided to try a new "z motor" as a guess. But reading Ron's comments about a past issue,"2 of them were due to not clamping the sleeve with the slit pointing in the direction of the clamp nut. In those cases the bit was making a squeeling noise because it was slipping in the sleeve. The other one was due to clamping into one of the flats on the tools. In this case the main problem was that they couldnt get the tool in and out of the chuck smooothly" I was hearing a squeek only on the left side and that is where the bit is stopping just after it squicks so might be the problem ( i thought it was the wood). I have had the rock chuck since Ron started selling them so I know how. I have tried to file the rock to smooth it out. I will try checking this again how I am installing it. Any other suggestions Ron?

[easybuilt]

Had to give it another try tonight. I took out the tool moved its position, checked the length of the took and really cranked on the nut to be sure it was tight in the rock chuck. I ran the project again and it stopped in the same spot. It seems like the truck is slowing down when it is going from the right to the left and as you can see it stops when it leaves the left about and inch. It still seems to have a squeak on the left side. I have cut about an inch since I sent the first picture. Maybe it is jst the Z motor. Thanks again for ALL the input.

[Wilbur]

I had the same thing happen and found it to be a loose bearing on the Z truck.
It was not noticeable until the truck go into one spot. Was not found loose when I cleaned.
I had to replace the bearing screw and it now works good.
I also found that having a dull bit would cause a Y truck stall on serration depth's.
I have found that there can be serial things that can cause stalls and I always get the ones that everyone doesn't get.

Wilbur

[Pratyeka]

Just my 2 cents worth!
I think you may get a Z-Axis error, it the bit is not extending out of the chuck enough. The "Z" can only drop down so far. If the bit does not extend out of the chuck enough, the Error message is very possible. When it measured the bit on the Touch Plate, it set a "Zero" point and will try to drop/lower deep enough to meet your depth setting for that carve and thus fail.

I'm probably too wordy!
AskBud

I second this finding, as it has happened to me once. And I'm not using the Rock but my own equivalent. If the bit does not extend far enough out of the chuck, and you are carving deep, the Z will hit the end of it's course and give you the Z-Axis error. Since then, I file a mark on the shank of all bits and eyeball it when inserting the bit into the chuck. This actually was the only problem related to alternative chuck.

[PCW]

If you look at Tom's picture in post 18 his bit is sticking out of the chuck more than enough. As a matter of fact I try to keep my bits chucked as close to the flutes as possible.

With the bit sticking out this much you run a risk of the bit drilling into the brass roller after it spins up and touches down near the brass roller. Also makes the bit more rigid during carving.

[dbfletcher]

If you look at Tom's picture in post 18 his bit is sticking out of the chuck more than enough. As a matter of fact I try to keep my bits chucked as close to the flutes as possible.

With the bit sticking out this much you run a risk of the bit drilling into the brass roller after it spins up and touches down near the brass roller. Also makes the bit more rigid during carving.

Agreed. I didnt notice that either at first. With my machines when I use the cutting or carving bits I need to have them with less than 1/8 inch of the shaft exposed before the cutting flutes. That is why I had to remove my collars from those two bits. When I had collars on, I would get a z-stall when the bit touched down by the brass roller. I know different circumstances than the OP, but he may want to try to move the but up in the rock to just before the cutting flutes and try it again.

Doug Fletcher

[mtylerfl]

Hi Michael,
Could you clarify for us what this particular Z axis error code indicates?... My undersanding is that it is, "generally speaking", an overload of the axis. In other words the motor is working harder than it should to move the "Z" truck up and down. It seems quite unlikely to me that if a bit is slipping, that the "Z" axis would push up or down too hard? In fact if it isnt tight, it would slip and move easier if anything. In reference to the "Global statement" that the Rock Chuck has caused every "Z" axis problem that you have been involved in is perhaps a little unfair... I have had 3 cases where customers have emailed or called me with a problem that was caused by a clamping problem. 2 of them were due to not clamping the sleeve with the slit pointing in the direction of the clamp nut. In those cases the bit was making a squeeling noise because it was slipping in the sleeve. The other one was due to clamping into one of the flats on the tools. In this case the main problem was that they couldnt get the tool in and out of the chuck smooothly. I have not heard of anything causing a "Z" error till now. This is 8 months later and many many chucks later. Tightned properly, the clamping pressure that is exerted on the tool is significantly more than necessary. I'm not sure if you have noticed or not, but there has been a major drop in the number of posts about having problems with a chuck. It was almost a daily topic 8 months ago. I can only think of one post where there was a "problem" type post about the Rock Chuck (by a user of the chuck) in the last 8 months, but there are still plenty of problems getting posted about the QC. Pretty much the same problems that i personally had, resurfacing over and over again..... Sorry but i had to get that out...
Happy Carving,

Ron

Hello Ron,

I think you have a great product, no question. As far as reasons for the cause of z-axis errors, perhaps the Tech Support folks at LHR could give you an more detailed explanation of how/why z-axis errors occur as it relates to a bit mounting or bit slipping issue. They are much more knowledgeable in that area than I am, certainly.

I have had more people calling with reports of z-axis errors with the Rock than I had with folks running a "stock" machine with the QC, which was a little surprising to me. The first call or two, I had no idea how critical the bit mounting was in the Rock (i.e., the need for bit stops and attention to clamp/bit position). Obviously, it is just as important to mount the bits properly in a Rock as it is in a QC, of course.

Z-axis error reports became common enough (maybe in the last three-ish months?) that the first question I started asking was, "Do you use the Rock chuck?" after I discovered that the callers with the z-axis errors told me they had just switched to the Rock chuck. This made me realize that there was a correlation, since they were saying this was a new problem they had not had when using the stock QC. I wish I had kept count of the number of calls regarding this issue, but I didn't. I'll hazard a guess that it has been maybe 15 or so(?) people I have heard from that started getting z-axis errors after switching to the Rock. I don't know how many Rock chucks are "out there" in use, so I don't know if it is a high percentage of folks with a Rock having the "z-problem" or if I'm just getting a concentration of calls because folks know I'm "free" (no cost) to call for advice.;)

As far as I know, each person was able to overcome the problem by paying more attention to how they were mounting their bits in the Rock - that is an assumption on my part, based on the fact that I tell each person, "Call me back if you have any more trouble." and I haven't heard back (unless they have called again and I just don't recognize them).

Most often, I suggest they contact you directly for specific advice when it involves the Rock. I also refer them to the forum to read your posts about how to avoid the problem of creating a burr from improperly mounting the bit, and also other people's posts for ideas on how they can get consistent bit/depth positioning to avoid other machine errors when running multi-bit projects during bit swaps (you know...making the homemade bit stops, marking the bits with lines, using sleeves, collars, plastic tubing, etc., etc.). Perhaps that's why I don't hear back... either you, or the forum postings helps them get back on track. Well, there was one exception - one fellow told me he actually removed the Rock chuck and resumed using the QC. He said the z-axis problems went away after that.

I have no idea whatsoever if the original poster's problem is caused from improper mounting of bits in the Rock or if it is some other issue with the machine itself. It was worth mentioning that the Rock could be a possibility to consider, based upon what I've been hearing from users.

I wish you great success in all your endeavors, and want to encourage you to continue developing your ideas to help users get maximum enjoyment from their CarveWright machines.

[liquidguitars]

fact:

If you install your long bits over 1.50" to low in the QC or the Rock you will get the z error regardless on who you call or what you do.

fact:

tighten down the set screw of your Rock hard if you use the 1/4 or 1/8 adapters sleeves.

fact:

If your z truck is loose "or tight" or any of your bearing are frozen you will get a z error.

fact:

If you do not use blue lock tight on the bearing when re adjusting the truck it will loosen over a 1 hr carve giving you the z stall.

fact:

Puppys love dog food.

fact:

The Rock is the best aftermarket chuck you can get to date.

my thoughts.

the QC is not for production work should be removed when the warranty runs out. get a Rock or wait for a LHR replacement.


I have had more people calling with reports of z-axis errors with the Rock than I had with folks running a "stock" machine with the QC, which was a little surprising to me.

it's a simple issue quickly fixed by correct placement of the bit and bearing maintenance.

[dbfletcher]

fact:

tighten down the set screw of your Rock hard if you use the 1/4 or 1/8 adapters sleeves.


LG,

Can you come up with a more "measurable" way to describe hard?

What has worked for me is just snugging up the bolt, and then add ~1/8 turn to that. I know I have seen Ron post about how much pressure his system exerts on the bit, and I dont think he was reccommending really "crankin" onthe T-handle. So far I havn't had problems... but if I'm heading down that road I would like to know sooner rather than later. I know there was one poster a while back that said he stripped the head of the bolt on the Rock, and Ron was shocked... I think that is the post where is said very little torque is required to get adaquate clamping pressure on the bit if the flats are inserted properly.

Doug Fletcher

PS. I forgot to meantion that I have the 1/2 rock with 1/4 & 1/8 sleeves. 95% of the bits i use are 1/4 however.

[liquidguitars]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I have not solved the problem yet. I call LHR tech's twice today. We cleaned out the z motor, checked the teeth inside the motor, checked the x and z readings and found no problems, tightened the belt. I reformated the card, and uploaded the "joy tree" again. Restarted the cut and I thought the problem was solved because it went an additional inch, but stoped again with a "z" error. It always stops about a inch from the left side when it is going right. After all my calls today LHR decided to try a new "z motor" as a guess. But reading Ron's comments about a past issue,"2 of them were due to not clamping the sleeve with the slit pointing in the direction of the clamp nut. In those cases the bit was making a squeeling noise because it was slipping in the sleeve. The other one was due to clamping into one of the flats on the tools. In this case the main problem was that they couldnt get the tool in and out of the chuck smooothly" I was hearing a squeek only on the left side and that is where the bit is stopping just after it squicks so might be the problem ( i thought it was the wood). I have had the rock chuck since Ron started selling them so I know how. I have tried to file the rock to smooth it out. I will try checking this again how I am installing it. Any other suggestions Ron?

Hi Tom,

If you hear any squeek noise thats not good If its not the bit, I would look at the physical connection of the z motor and the motor body, I think your motor is loose on the housing.

To see it you will have to remove z pack and then remove the clear plastic dust sheild look for two screws holding the little motor to the base.

[liquidguitars]

I think that is the post where is said very little torque is required to get adaquate clamping pressure on the bit if the flats are inserted properly.

I think he was talking about the 1/4" rock in this statement.

For the 1/2 to 1/8 , 1/4" adapters I have to crank the snot out of it until the truck assembly starts to move a little, I guess Ron could get a torque wrench and give us specs but i do not think overnighting the selves are a issue as it works fine for me.

yea and the 1/8 extra turn sounds correct depending on the sleeve so it's around 3/4 tight then the extra 1/8 turn..

[easybuilt]

I spoke to Michael today from CarveBuddy and we checked out the z truck and found a little play in the lower right hand side. I moved the nut very little down and snugged it up. Ran the project over and I had no problems. There were No issues with the Rock Chuck and it was not the problem. Thank you everyone for helping me with this, your suggestions and Michael I really appreciate all you did today! Thank you everyone you are a great support! :)

[liquidguitars]

I spoke to Michael today from CarveBuddy and we checked out the z truck and found a little play in the lower right hand side. I moved the nut very little down and snugged it up

Do not forget to add locktight to the bearing screw and let dry.







LG

[mtylerfl]

I spoke to Michael today from CarveBuddy and we checked out the z truck and found a little play in the lower right hand side. I moved the nut very little down and snugged it up. Ran the project over and I had no problems. There were No issues with the Rock Chuck and it was not the problem. Thank you everyone for helping me with this, your suggestions and Michael I really appreciate all you did today! Thank you everyone you are a great support! :)

Our pleasure, Tom! It was great talking to you and I am extremely pleased that it was a simple fix. I am especially pleased that it had nothing to do with your Rock! Nice and simple - just a bearing adjustment was all that was needed.