Rock Chuck Problems ?? No Problems !!

[jjack9485]

I was just about ready to get rid of my Carvewright because of the many aggravating problems with my machine. After several Quick Chucks, several switches, flex shaft and so on and so on, Sept 9th I sent my machine in after destroying the Z truck trying to get my 3rd QC off and had LHR install new Z truck, rubber belts and the Rock Chuck I had sent with the machine. Since Sept 9th I have put 157 hours on my machine without even a hiccup. The rubber belts and the Rock Chuck are the only things that I can attribute the success to. It is such a pleasure to carve without all of the errors. I just finished a over 10 hours carve ( 8 Jesus faces on crosses at one time, 8 foot X 6”) and now with a couple more hours on my second Joy Tree.

Jack

[dbfletcher]

I was just about ready to get rid of my Carvewright because of the many aggravating problems with my machine. After several Quick Chucks, several switches, flex shaft and so on and so on, Sept 9th I sent my machine in after destroying the Z truck trying to get my 3rd QC off and had LHR install new Z truck, rubber belts and the Rock Chuck I had sent with the machine. Since Sept 9th I have put 157 hours on my machine without even a hiccup. The rubber belts and the Rock Chuck are the only things that I can attribute the success to. It is such a pleasure to carve without all of the errors. I just finished a over 10 hours carve ( 8 Jesus faces on crosses at one time, 8 foot X 6”) and now with a couple more hours on my second Joy Tree.

Jack

I had a very similair experience. I dont think i ever managed to carve a project from start to finish with the qc without running in to one error or another... but now that I have the rock, I routinely just start a project a walk away. With the qc I had to be there constantly knowing it was going to blow up at any minute. I havn't has a single project failure since switching to the rock. I would have never guessed such a simply change could make such a HUGH difference.

Doug Fletcher

[jjack9485]

Doug,

I would never had believed that the QC caused most of the problems, the flex shaft doesn't even get more than warm if that much. I understand that LHR will be coming out with a new chuck, I don't know that any chuck could be a improvement over the Rock. I wonder why its taking them so long to get it out, the only thing I can think of is they are probably waiting to get a patent. Yes I welcome long carves now. I simply get it started before I go to bed and then in the morning I change to the cut out bit. If the power ever would go out, simply delete the portion that has carved from pattern and continue on. I don't work for Ron nor do I even know him, I just think credit should go where it do. The Carvewright is a great and fun machine especially with the improvements, I would'n trade it for anything now.....

Jack

[Icutone2]

Changed both machines to the "ROCK" and all is working great. Best update ever!
Lee

[will george]

I am not knocking the ROC.. Had my CW for a bit and made my two China bed carvings with it.. I have no complaints! OK, so my flex shaft popped out of the motor. I received no reply... but I fixed it with some epoxy...

[Deolman]

Did I understand you correctly? You said LHR installed the Rock for you? That alone says a lot for LHR service. WOW!

[mtylerfl]

... I don't know that any chuck could be a improvement over the Rock...
Jack

The area for improvement is the "bit mounting issue" so that there is a consistent, reliable method to assure the bit lengths are identical during initial project setup and during bit swaps, without the necessity for home-made sleeves, rings, spacers, collars, etc.. This is particularly important for multi-bit projects where more than just the cutting and carving bits are used.

Another plus with the "heavy-duty" chuck upgrade from LHR is that it will be officially approved for use with the machines.

As you know, I am perfectly happy with the QC design as it stands right now, because I personally have found them to be durable and long-lasting. In addition, they are accurate in their performance along with worry-free, quick, and reliable bit mounting. I have stretched the machine to its limits with many of my project designs and have not had any problems with the stock QC while running any of them. However, there is always room for improvement, and can't argue with that.

[tsl1972]

Can anyone tell me how the rock addresses bit changes for the same project.

[Digitalwoodshop]

It all comes down to adding something to your bit that lets it STOP at the same depth each time.....

Some have done it with Shrink tubing, nylon 1/4 inch rings from the plumbing department, adding epoxy while turning the bit at slow speed on a lathe.

I use 1/4 and 1/2 inch locking rings with a set screw.

The trick is what ever method you use... Remove the screw and locking plug from the Rock and install the bit. Turn the bit and if the FLAT spot cut into the bit is seen in the locking area then adjust the lock to a different depth. Locking onto a flat spot can put a burr on your ROCK locking nut OR cause the bit to come loose... I know.... You must lock it on a ROUND spot....

See in my picture how I have the Flat Spot in a position that it will go up into the chuck and the lock nut will MISS it...

AL

[tsl1972]

thank you very much, that is very helpful. I just ordered a new z-truck today and am deciding whether or not to purchase the rock. Where are the stop collars available?

[Digitalwoodshop]

As far as I am concerned, the Rock is a MUST HAVE.....

Here is just one place to buy the locking rings.

Check your Router Bit supplier...

http://www.westerntool.com/product.htm?pid=502775 1/4 inch

http://www.westerntool.com/product.htm?pid=502776 1/2 inch

Only .99 cents each....

AL

[jjack9485]

Michael,

I don’t understand why you are so protective of the QC, If its so great why is LHR going to the “Heavy-Duty” chuck upgrade? Are you saying the Rock is not a heavy duty chuck? Its obvious in that majority thinks the QC is the biggest weak link in the CW design. I know that you are close to the LHR folks and you would probably be hesitant in giving a negative comment on the well known problem QC. Its funny that a third party had to come up with a chuck that’s actually an improvement and it works. As far as the”bit mounting issue”, I don’t use any spacers, home-made sleeves, collars etc.. I simply insert the bit and leave about ¾” showing and the V bits just insert them all the way touching the chuck, can’t be any simpler than that. Michael I am not downing the Carvewright , I think it’s the greatest thing since sliced bread, I use it four to five days a week. I just think the QC is a piece of crap and not afraid to say so. I bet it won’t be long that LHR will discontinue the QC in its entirety . Do you think if there was a poll on the QC vrs the Rock, the QC would have the most favorable comments ?

Its just funny that since I installed the Rock, that I have had absolutely no problems what so ever over, 157 hours and not even a check close door.

Jack

[DocWheeler]

Jack,

I'd like to make a comment here. I think that the first person that I contacted here was Ron since he was about the closest to me, we have talked by phone and email several times. I have also talked with Michael, and I must say that both of them are real gentlemen.

I also have two machines, one with the ROCK and one with a QC that has been balanced. Neither machine vibrates now.

In my opinion, Michael would be hard pressed to say much "bad" about anything, that is the way he lives his life and I respect that (I'm not so much that way).

If any of us was fortunate enough to have received a fairly balanced QC on our machines, we would wonder what the fuss was all about - perhaps Michael is one such person. I really like my balanced QC for simplicity.

For me, the QC is simpler to use, but mainly because of physical limitations. I think that the ROCK is a quality product by a quality individual.

Nuf said.

[Rapidroy]

I'm a new RC user, what are the tip to locking ring measurements for the bits and router bits.

[dbfletcher]

I'm a new RC user, what are the tip to locking ring measurements for the bits and router bits.

Personally, I would reccomend using the rock with out collars of any type at first. If the measurement issue becomes a problem, then look at collars. I have a rock on both of my machines.. and at first I tried the "vinyl tubing & super glue" collar.. then i bought the locking ring collars... today, I dont even bother with collars. Now that I realize the the first measurement the machine takes isnt really all that important. When the machine indicates the bit bit depth is't matching the first measurment, I just hit (2 continue) and it goes on its merry way. I haven't had any issues with doing this so far.

Thanks,

Doug Fletcher

[Pratyeka]

Personally, I would reccomend using the rock with out collars of any type at first. If the measurement issue becomes a problem, then look at collars. I have a rock on both of my machines.. and at first I tried the "vinyl tubing & super glue" collar.. then i bought the locking ring collars... today, I dont even bother with collars. Now that I realize the the first measurement the machine takes isnt really all that important. When the machine indicates the bit bit depth is't matching the first measurment, I just hit (2 continue) and it goes on its merry way. I haven't had any issues with doing this so far.

Thanks,

Doug Fletcher

Which version of software are you running on the machine?

[dbfletcher]

Which version of software are you running on the machine?

Currently 1.153 on both. But didnt have problems with 1.152 either. Now 1.15 was another story all together!

Doug Fletcher

[WRW]

Hi Doug
I have been doing the same thing with my bits, I did however see a difference today. I ran the same project twice with the same board thickness. When carving the center line text, using 90 V bit on both projects, the second project carved far deeper. My question is, has this happened to you?
Thanks

[mtylerfl]

Michael,

I don’t understand why you are so protective of the QC, If its so great why is LHR going to the “Heavy-Duty” chuck upgrade? Are you saying the Rock is not a heavy duty chuck? Its obvious in that majority thinks the QC is the biggest weak link in the CW design. I know that you are close to the LHR folks and you would probably be hesitant in giving a negative comment on the well known problem QC. Its funny that a third party had to come up with a chuck that’s actually an improvement and it works. As far as the”bit mounting issue”, I don’t use any spacers, home-made sleeves, collars etc.. I simply insert the bit and leave about ¾” showing and the V bits just insert them all the way touching the chuck, can’t be any simpler than that. Michael I am not downing the Carvewright , I think it’s the greatest thing since sliced bread, I use it four to five days a week. I just think the QC is a piece of crap and not afraid to say so. I bet it won’t be long that LHR will discontinue the QC in its entirety . Do you think if there was a poll on the QC vrs the Rock, the QC would have the most favorable comments ?

Its just funny that since I installed the Rock, that I have had absolutely no problems what so ever over, 157 hours and not even a check close door.

Jack

Hello Jack,

Thank you for your comments. I indeed do consider the Rock as a "heavy duty" chuck, and well thought out, with the possible exception of bit mounting. It's just not very appealing to me to fiddle with sleeves and collars when I can simply and easily snap a bit in and out of my perfectly satisfactory QC's.

I realize that some folks have had a good deal of frustration with their QC. I do have some ideas as to why they have and why I do not, but suffice to say that I have had no personal reason to make me think that the QC is not a good design. On two different machines - they have always performed beautifully, so I really don't have any reason to change to anything else for myself.

Having said that, I DO look forward to a new "heavy duty" (my words, not LHR's) chuck coming from LHR. I will probably get one - if for nothing else - to run some extensive tests with it before it goes to mass market. I think it will be a very nice upgrade for those who use their machines as much as folks like AL does! (he's put his machines through more work than anyone else that I know of!)

Someone asked why it was taking so long. Well, liability for one. The developers must consider every scenario (mistakes) they can think of that a user might do or not do so that the product is proven safe before release. Another issue is that parts have to be sourced and manufactured to very tight tolerances, so a certain amount of "shopping around" has to be done to find the right source. Then, an assembly facility has to be lined up, etc., etc. So much goes into a new product before its actual release it's almost mind boggling.

I am very pleased that you are having such great success with your Rock, and that your problems have "gone away". The main thing is that you are able to use and enjoy your machine!

Thanks again.

[dbfletcher]

Hi Doug
I have been doing the same thing with my bits, I did however see a difference today. I ran the same project twice with the same board thickness. When carving the center line text, using 90 V bit on both projects, the second project carved far deeper. My question is, has this happened to you?
Thanks

I cant say I have seen that yet. I did about 20 some tombstones and signs for halloween and didnt really see any inconsistances. I'll keep an eye out for any oddities though.

Doug Fletcher

[Rapidroy]

My QC worked great till I broke a 1/8 bit and did'nt have a extra. now with the RC I can just pickup a bit at the Woodworkers Supply and off I go (I think its just an 1/8 up spriral plunge bit) My 2 Sears stores don't stock QC's anymore. but after all the posts still no one has given a measurement. I set my up at 1.5" works good.

[jjack9485]

Michael,

Please don’t take offence to my previous comments; I was simply stating my opinion of the QC and all of the problems associated with it. Again the bit mounting is accomplished without any fiddling , I can install my carving and or the cutting bit as fast or faster than using the QC., and not worrying about whether the bit is indeed seated or not.You mentioned one reason for LHR taking so long in getting their Heavy-Duty chuck out was one reason was liability, if that’s the case they ought to have a recall on the QC. I have heard several cases where the QC blew apart, bits flying out etc. I guess that’s why they put a protective cover on it. The Rock doesn’t have any slip collars bb’s, race or anything that could fly apart. Much safer than the QC. Again this is only my opinion.
By the way I have finished two of the Joy Tree’s and the 3rd is carving now. They are great, I won’t have any trouble in selling or giving them away.

[Shacky]

My QC worked great till I broke a 1/8 bit and did'nt have a extra. now with the RC I can just pickup a bit at the Woodworkers Supply and off I go (I think its just an 1/8 up spriral plunge bit) My 2 Sears stores don't stock QC's anymore. but after all the posts still no one has given a measurement. I set my up at 1.5" works good.

Are you saying that you found a 1/8 cutting bit at Woodworkers Supply that works satisfactorily with the Rock? If so, could you share the link or item number?

[jjack9485]

Jack,

I'd like to make a comment here. I think that the first person that I contacted here was Ron since he was about the closest to me, we have talked by phone and email several times. I have also talked with Michael, and I must say that both of them are real gentlemen.

I also have two machines, one with the ROCK and one with a QC that has been balanced. Neither machine vibrates now.

In my opinion, Michael would be hard pressed to say much "bad" about anything, that is the way he lives his life and I respect that (I'm not so much that way).

If any of us was fortunate enough to have received a fairly balanced QC on our machines, we would wonder what the fuss was all about - perhaps Michael is one such person. I really like my balanced QC for simplicity.

For me, the QC is simpler to use, but mainly because of physical limitations. I think that the ROCK is a quality product by a quality individual.

Nuf said.
Doc,

I agree with you 100 %, I know Michael is a stand up person, and we are very fortunate to have him in our Carvewright family. I was just venting.

Jack

[mtylerfl]

Michael,

Please don’t take offence to my previous comments; I was simply stating my opinion of the QC and all of the problems associated with it. Again the bit mounting is accomplished without any fiddling , I can install my carving and or the cutting bit as fast or faster than using the QC., and not worrying about whether the bit is indeed seated or not.You mentioned one reason for LHR taking so long in getting their Heavy-Duty chuck out was one reason was liability, if that’s the case they ought to have a recall on the QC. I have heard several cases where the QC blew apart, bits flying out etc. I guess that’s why they put a protective cover on it. The Rock doesn’t have any slip collars bb’s, race or anything that could fly apart. Much safer than the QC. Again this is only my opinion.
By the way I have finished two of the Joy Tree’s and the 3rd is carving now. They are great, I won’t have any trouble in selling or giving them away.

Hello Jack,

No offense taken at all. I love to hear different viewpoints on practically everything. I enjoy learning from others' experiences.

So glad to hear you're crankin' out the Joy Trees! I need to get busy on some more of those and a couple Holiday Sleighs, too!

[Rapidroy]

The only bits I've used are QC and now the ones I got with my RC but I've looked at others I would even think the RotoZip bits would work (sold at Homedepot, Lowes etc) as long as its an Up Spiral plunge bit. Yes or No? I use my CW as more of a CNC then a carver. cutouts, drilling holes. and use1/8 bit 95% of the time. But I'm starting to carve more and more.

[Jeff_Birt]

I would even think the RotoZip bits would work (sold at Homedepot, Lowes etc) as long as its an Up Spiral plunge bit. Yes or No?


A resounding NO. All bits are not equal. The bits made for Dremel and Rotzip tools are made to be cheap. Most of them are high speed steel which will not work and even the carbide one are not suitable for the CarveWright. The bit geometry and length must be close to the bits the CW sells.

[liquidguitars]

I think MT is nice guy and smart, however I suspect for this discussion, he likes to use "clear pine" #1 Pine can be soft as a baby's butt and very expensive so he would not have a lot of issues using the cursed QC. let him use hard maple for a few months and he will be begging for a alliterative LHR or Rock like us. :)

We, the forum members on the other hand test and use a variety of wood like soft maple, alder, cedar and ebony to name a few.

the last QC i had lasted 14 hrs " starting to sound like a AA meeting " :) I too was ready to call it quits on this remarkable machine.

LG

[seabass]

Maple isn't even that hard!
Look at the Janka charts.

The woods I use are two to three times harder than Maple. Try using Jatoba, Ipe, Rosewood or any of the exotics. Your QC may not make it 2 hours. Mostly I am afraid to use them in the CW as it sounds like the CW wants to blow up when I try those woods!

I have a Rock chuck. I like it, BUT

The sound is still just as loud just a more bearable sound.

I have broken three bits already NEVER broke a single bit with the QC. 105.00 worth of new bits ruined I was not really too happy. Also, my belt went out of tracking within 2 hours of the Rock being installed, but never had a tracking issue with 190 hours of the QC cutting Soft Curly Maple. Coincidence?

So although the Rock Chuck is durable there is something going on with new adjustments needed or something.

Any ideas?

PS

There is no comparison to a regular upcut router bit from a woodworking store compared to the end mills. The end mills are MUCH better and longer lasting. I bet using regular router bits you will use two or three to one compared to using an end mill.

[liquidguitars]

Coincidence?

Safe to say the two are not related.


My fix for belts is to cut .50" off the bad side..


The sound is still just as loud just a more bearable sound

Check your bearings and oil the flex shat more often. it should be smoother sounding.

EDIT: Just a thought.. the z pack can vibrate loose from the truck and will add to the rattle noise. If it is just remove the z pack motor and re tighten the two screws at the mount. Also visually check the z truck for damage.


I have broken three bits already NEVER broke a single bit with the QC. 105.00 worth of new bits ruined

As a carbide freak i feel your pain. Stop and check over the unit as this could be anything including your design!

LG

[seabass]

Rubber belts going on today. The sandpaper belts ripped to the center!

[liquidguitars]

I think you will love them, it's a good upgrade and i never get a tracking problem. remember to use the new smaller o ring and do a belt calibrate.

[seabass]

Will do, thanks..