View Full Version : Quality Computer Recomendations
Hi there,
I am preparing to purchase a new laptop for my carvewright and am wondering about specs and whatnot. Most of the local stores only advertise gaming or entertainment or other broad heading that doesnt really help me out with what I need for Designer. What do you have for a machine that is responsive and can render quickly and keep up with you as you clickety click?
I figure there is another thread about this but if it's more than 20 minutes old it's obsolete!
TIMCOSBY
10-25-2009, 11:54 PM
e-machine from wally world and it does just fine. i think it has 2 megs of ram.
fwharris
10-26-2009, 12:08 AM
Kix,
Welcome back long time no see!!
Being some what geek challenged myself :roll: I would think you want to lean in the direction of the gaming system because of the video components and drivers of the system. I would also load up on the ram, more is better especially if you tend to run multiple applications at the same time.
There should be some great deals on systems with the weak economy and holiday season coming at us at break neck speed.
hogiewan
10-26-2009, 08:38 AM
Get a dual core processor and at least 2 gigs of ram (4 would be ideal and can be had cheaply if you look around). Make sure you get a video chip from NVidia or ATI as Intel video cards never work well with 3D.
PM me with your budget and I can recommend a few for you.
jab73180
10-26-2009, 09:12 AM
remember black friday is coming up after thanksgiving, you can usually get great deals on electronics and such. the only thing is you have to be first in line, whenever they open.
DocWheeler
10-26-2009, 10:07 AM
Kix,
Here (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=5311061&sku=A180-15620&SRCCODE=WEM2062C&cm_mmc=Email-_-Main-_-WEM2062-_-tigerdeals) is something from TigerDirect that I wish I had an excuse to get.
HighTechOkie
10-26-2009, 11:17 AM
Any current model laptop (not "netbook") will run Designer and any photo editing software just fine. If you want to play with 3D modeling, then that can get a bit more involved.
3D for gaming is not the same as 3D modeling. Games use DirectX10, while Designer relies upon OpenGL. In the current versions of most 3D modeling programs, the lines get a bit more blurred. They all support OpenGL, but many are transitioning and supporting DirectX10 also.
The main requirements I would look for are dual core, 2Gb ram and Windows 7. This is all based on Designer being the primary use. If there are other apps you need to use, then their might be some additional requirements to consider.
Rob
hogiewan
10-26-2009, 07:46 PM
3D for gaming is not the same as 3D modeling. Games use DirectX10, while Designer relies upon OpenGL.
3D is 3D whether for gaming or modeling. better graphics cards let the processor offload more work to it so the computer can work faster. A lower quality graphics card may run Designer the same as a "gaming" card, but the better card will allow the computer to run more programs concurrently.
Also, some games use OpenGL and some 3D design packages use directX. I have a computer science degree and have studied 3D programming, so I know a bit about this.
hogiewan
10-26-2009, 07:47 PM
Kix,
Here (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=5311061&sku=A180-15620&SRCCODE=WEM2062C&cm_mmc=Email-_-Main-_-WEM2062-_-tigerdeals) is something from TigerDirect that I wish I had an excuse to get.
that's a decent machine, but you can do better for the price.
dbfletcher
10-26-2009, 07:57 PM
No really correct. 3D gaming typically get optimized for both graphics rendering and the physics of motion. (collision detection, etc). Rendering and shading are probalby most important with application 3D (autocad, Solidworks, lightwave, etc)... where are realtime graphics & transition are most important for 3D gaming. Trying to use own system for the other, you will run in to limitations either way you go. High 3d App card boast hugh display resolutions which most gaming card cant match. And high end gaming cards are geaed for super fast realtime display and updates.
I also have a master's in Computer Science. But as with all things are this forum.... opinions will vary.
Doug Fletcher
that's a decent machine, but you can do better for the price.
Ok where!!! Looks like a great price to me! Could you direct us to a better deal? My wife needs a new laptop.
Ike
PS I don't have a degree, not even a pedigree!
Hi All
Has anyone tried software with Windows 7, 64 bit version?
hogiewan
10-26-2009, 08:12 PM
No really correct. 3D gaming typically get optimized for both graphics rendering and the physics of motion. (collision detection, etc). Rendering and shading are probalby most important with application 3D (autocad, Solidworks, lightwave, etc)... where are realtime graphics & transition are most important for 3D gaming. Trying to use own system for the other, you will run in to limitations either way you go. High 3d App card boast hugh display resolutions which most gaming card cant match. And high end gaming cards are geaed for super fast realtime display and updates.
I also have a master's in Computer Science. But as with all things are this forum.... opinions will vary.
Doug Fletcher
you're right, but in the lower end of computer pricing, a gaming card will do much better than an intel graphics processor.
twiceretired
10-26-2009, 08:14 PM
Computer and Software Requirements:
RAM
Minimum: 1GB RAM
Recommended: 2GB RAM
Very large models: X64 processor and Operating System with 6GB or more of RAM when system resources exceed the 2GB limit of a 32-bit OS architecture.
Video
A certified OpenGL workstation graphics card and driver.
For a listing of tested and certified graphics cards and driver combinations visit the Graphics Cards and Systems web site.
CPU
Intel® or AMD® processors (7)
eDrawings® is supported on Apple Macintosh®-based machines (6)
Other
Mouse or other pointing device
DVD drive
Microsoft Excel 2002, 2003, or 2007
Internet Explorer version 6.x or higher
Adobe Acrobat version 7.0.7 or higher
Network SolidWorks is tested only with Microsoft's Windows Networking and Active Directory network environments (8)
dbfletcher
10-26-2009, 08:15 PM
I did on the release canidate, but have not tried it on the final version. But it would have been 1.134 and not the latest 1.153. I didnt really run in to any issues, but i didnt do extensive testing either.
Doug Fletcher
hogiewan
10-26-2009, 08:15 PM
Ok where!!! Looks like a great price to me! Could you direct us to a better deal? My wife needs a new laptop.
Ike
PS I don't have a degree, not even a pedigree!
Dell had some great pricing a few weeks ago, but that is not showing right now. If you check their site once a week, you'll find a deal on what you want within a month, maybe 6 weeks. Also, CDW carries HP "smart buys" which are rotating specials thoughout their models, but they seem to be discounting the middle-priced models right now.
dbfletcher
10-26-2009, 08:18 PM
Does it have to be a laptop? You will always get more bang for you $ if looking for a desktop over a laptop.
Doug Fletcher
Thank you my wife doesn't need anything that plays games and such. She e-mails and web surfs etc. So a high end would be a waste of money!
Ike
Does it have to be a laptop? You will always get more bang for you $ if looking for a desktop over a laptop.
Doug Fletcher
Doug yes we have become lazy sitting in our recliners watching the 73" big screen using our laptops with wireless!
Ike
I just purchased a new desktop computer today. I have been running a dual core 2.13gb for over 2 years and have been very happy with it. It has only 1gb of memory but it was fast for it's time. The old one will be great for the shop. Anyone running the newer quad core processor?
The specs for the new system is below.
Dell Studio 435 ($985.00 + tax and free shipping)
Intel Core i7-920 Processor (8MB L3 Cache, 1MB L2 Cache, 2.66GHz)
12 GB DDR3 SDRAM 1066MHz (6 DIMMs)
1 TB SATA II Hard Drive (7200RPM) 3.0Gb/s, 32MB Cache
512MB ATI Radeon HD 4670
Blu-ray Disc (BD) Burner (Writes to DVD/CD/BD)
Windows 7 64 bit
Sounds Great Dan
Have you loaded designer yet, and are you having any driver issues with older peripherals, (printers, scanners etc.)? Assuming of course you may have older peripherals. . I for one would be interested in any feed back on Windows 7, 64 bit as you go forward as I am considering it for the near future.
Thanks
Richard,
My machine is scheduled to be delivered on 11/3 but I will post the results when I have had a chance to run it a while. There was some posts last week on Windows 7 and Designer and all 3 poster said they have not encountered any problems. Most where running BATA copies for months as well. As far as peripherals are concerned all I have to worry about is a Brothers Laser Printer.
Chief
10-26-2009, 09:51 PM
I just purchased a new desktop computer today. I have been running a dual core 2.13gb for over 2 years and have been very happy with it. It has only 1gb of memory but it was fast for it's time. The old one will be great for the shop. Anyone running the newer quad core processor?
The specs for the new system is below.
Dell Studio 435 ($985.00 + tax and free shipping)
Intel Core i7-920 Processor (8MB L3 Cache, 1MB L2 Cache, 2.66GHz)
12 GB DDR3 SDRAM 1066MHz (6 DIMMs)
1 TB SATA II Hard Drive (7200RPM) 3.0Gb/s, 32MB Cache
512MB ATI Radeon HD 4670
Blu-ray Disc (BD) Burner (Writes to DVD/CD/BD)
Windows 7 64 bit
Dan,
I forget what's in my server but my new workstation has Intel'ss i7-920 CPU, which they call a Quad core but, when you visit the Windows Task Manager, it reports 8 CPUs. Unfortunately, until I upgrade to Windows 7, 64 bit, I can't assign tasks to the different CPUs. I notice that it's the same CPU that you have.
I have 8g of DDR3 memory. I don't remember the speed. I have a solid-state memory device (forget what it's called) for my C drive which is where nothing but the operating system and drivers go. It's only 50g as these babies get expensive real quick. I have four 1 terrabyte drives in a RAID 5 array with nightly backups of my email and genealogy to the server. Right now I have a virtual drive on C for my genealogy and, when I get some free time, another virtual drive for my email. I might put a few other programs on virtual drives. Placing important programs on a virtual drive means that I don't lose the registry if my C drive goes bad. Every time I've had to rebuild, it would take me about 2 weeks to re-install all of the software.
I also have two 20" monitors, one a wide screen, a scanner and a WACOM graphics tablet and 2 DVD burners. And there are 2 printers and a fax modem connected to my server so that my wife can use my printers without bothering me or slowing me down.
I wouldn't recommend this set-up to anyone unless they could afford to waste a few dollars and have a son who fixes computers for a living. He complains that my computer is the most complicated he's ever seen yet he's the one I let decide what to buy whenever I rebuild. I rely on his expertise. He has been taking care of my computers since I let him replace a bad drive on one of my earlier computers 21 years ago. He was 14 at the time and the rest is history.
You'll love the machine although why Dell would put 8 g of RAM is beyond me, other than to jack up the price. That's 1.5g per processor.
Chief
liquidguitars
10-26-2009, 09:58 PM
Chief,
Sounds like a excellent computer lots of memory.. like how he placed the OS on a sram-drive.
LG
Chief,
Sounds like you have a well hung system.:mrgreen:
I'm a big fan of the Raid Controller and will be adding a second drive as soon as possible and setting it up as a mirror. It's good insurance against lost data.
The motherboard will handle up to 24gb of RAM. The only reason I choose the 12gb is there is 6 DIMM slots and if you order 4gb or 6gb of RAM configuration they install 1gb DIMM's so if you order 6gb all your slots are filled up and you have to replace DIMM's to upgrade. I was looking for a 8gb system (4 X 2gb DIMM"S) so it would be easier to upgrade down the road if needed but then this one showed up on the list so I grabbed it.
My thinking is RAM is relatively cheap and it's something I rather have to much of and not enough of.
Chief
10-27-2009, 02:44 PM
Chief,
Sounds like a excellent computer lots of memory.. like how he placed the OS on a sram-drive.
LG
LG,
My son usually talks me into a new computer every two years. He won't admit it but his reasoning is simple............ He takes the old parts home. The last time (August 2009) he put the CPU, motherboard and memory in an old case he had (probably less than a year old, if I know him). He added a hard drive that I had laying around, about 500m and I ordered a DVD burner. He sold it for $500 on eBay. Usually he keeps the parts for himself but he has 2 computers for himself, one for his wife and he and I bought one for my 5 year old granddaughter. She'll grow up as tech savvy as her dad did.
I didn't know the name of the drive and I'm not sure if "s-ram" is a good name but I like the principle. What I don't like is the cost which is why I only went for a 50m. Between computers and woodworking, I might have to go back to work.
Chief
10-27-2009, 02:51 PM
Chief,
Sounds like you have a well hung system.:mrgreen:
I'm a big fan of the Raid Controller and will be adding a second drive as soon as possible and setting it up as a mirror. It's good insurance against lost data.
The motherboard will handle up to 24gb of RAM. The only reason I choose the 12gb is there is 6 DIMM slots and if you order 4gb or 6gb of RAM configuration they install 1gb DIMM's so if you order 6gb all your slots are filled up and you have to replace DIMM's to upgrade. I was looking for a 8gb system (4 X 2gb DIMM"S) so it would be easier to upgrade down the road if needed but then this one showed up on the list so I grabbed it.
My thinking is RAM is relatively cheap and it's something I rather have to much of and not enough of.
Dan,
I think the manufacturers of the motherboards have an interest in the memory companies. My first computer was a Trash-80 from Radio Shack. It had all of 4k of RAM and to upgrade to 16k meant throwing out the old RAM. At least today there's enough of a market that you can sell the old RAM as long as it isn't older than you. You won't get a ton of money but it's still more than just throwing in the trash. And today's prices?? Wow! I think I paid $600 for the Trash-80 with 4k. Storage was a tape recorder that had the speaker removed or disabled and had limited storage on the cassettes. Of course Radio Shack suggested that you bought their best tapes.
When I took the big step up to16k, that was $300, IIRC. The first hard drive that I saw ported for use on the TRS-80 was a Winchester that had been adapted and it was $1,000 for 5m of hard drive. And my first printer was $2,000 but I only paid $1800 because I owned a couple shares of Radio Shack stock. Today's computers are so cheap and the advancement is so great that everybody could replace their computer every 2-3 years and come out ahead.
Chief
I just purchased a new desktop computer today. I have been running a dual core 2.13gb for over 2 years and have been very happy with it. It has only 1gb of memory but it was fast for it's time. The old one will be great for the shop. Anyone running the newer quad core processor?
The specs for the new system is below.
Dell Studio 435 ($985.00 + tax and free shipping)
Intel Core i7-920 Processor (8MB L3 Cache, 1MB L2 Cache, 2.66GHz)
12 GB DDR3 SDRAM 1066MHz (6 DIMMs)
1 TB SATA II Hard Drive (7200RPM) 3.0Gb/s, 32MB Cache
512MB ATI Radeon HD 4670
Blu-ray Disc (BD) Burner (Writes to DVD/CD/BD)
Windows 7 64 bit
Hey dan note you are running a Sata drive Hp has put out a warning that Segate Satas are failing and asking owner to check the SN to see if thay are due and upgrade. the SG are crashing
Look at Hp product pages mine is a 633 it listed on that item
Chief
10-27-2009, 02:59 PM
Chief,
Sounds like you have a well hung system.:mrgreen:
I'm a big fan of the Raid Controller and will be adding a second drive as soon as possible and setting it up as a mirror. It's good insurance against lost data.
The motherboard will handle up to 24gb of RAM. The only reason I choose the 12gb is there is 6 DIMM slots and if you order 4gb or 6gb of RAM configuration they install 1gb DIMM's so if you order 6gb all your slots are filled up and you have to replace DIMM's to upgrade. I was looking for a 8gb system (4 X 2gb DIMM"S) so it would be easier to upgrade down the road if needed but then this one showed up on the list so I grabbed it.
My thinking is RAM is relatively cheap and it's something I rather have to much of and not enough of.
Dan,
I forgot to make a comment about your system. I don't recall the price but it was over $100 for each of my RAID controllers. What I don't recall is if you have to download everything on your C drive to an external drive to switch from a RAID 0 or 1 to a RAID 5. If you're series out taking the leap, I suggest that you save up enough for the controller and at least 2 more drives about the same size as what you now have. The more drives you have installed on your RAID controller, the less you lose to whichever process it uses, whether a mirror, striping or..... DAMMIT, the old memory is acting up again and I'm not talking about the computer's. Oh, I remember now. RAID 5 uses parity and possibly striping but I"m not sure. I'll ask my kid about it and let you now.
Chief
Chief,
Been there and I feel the same way. My first was a Apple IIE no hard drive worked off the 5 1/4 disk.:D
I stepped up to a Packard Bell He He (SX25 mhz w/Math Coprocessor) it was about a $1000.00 way back then. I remember upgrading that jewels CPU and it was soldered onto the motherboard. They had a expansion slot on the motherboard for the new CPU. I felt robbed.
Of course I had a bag phone.:mrgreen: Boy do I feel old!!!
Dan,
I think the manufacturers of the motherboards have an interest in the memory companies.
Chief
dbfletcher
10-27-2009, 03:26 PM
Dan,
I forgot to make a comment about your system. I don't recall the price but it was over $100 for each of my RAID controllers. What I don't recall is if you have to download everything on your C drive to an external drive to switch from a RAID 0 or 1 to a RAID 5. If you're series out taking the leap, I suggest that you save up enough for the controller and at least 2 more drives about the same size as what you now have. The more drives you have installed on your RAID controller, the less you lose to whichever process it uses, whether a mirror, striping or..... DAMMIT, the old memory is acting up again and I'm not talking about the computer's. Oh, I remember now. RAID 5 uses parity and possibly striping but I"m not sure. I'll ask my kid about it and let you now.
Chief
For home users, I always reccommend use of raid 1 (mirroring). If one drive fails, the other can be used to rebuild the array when the failed drive is repalced. In addition, raid 1 drives can be removed and accessed in ANY OTHER computer. I typically use a usb/sata adapter for this. With raid 5... you need the controller and all functioning members of the array. Raid 5 can handle one failed drive... same as raid 1. Both raid 1 & 5 use n-1 (n= number of drive in the array) for data and the rest for maintaining the array. Since raid 1 is a two drive only setup, you lose 1/2 of your capacity. Raid 5 is 3 drive and up setup.. so with 3 drives, 2/3 is data, 1/3 for overhead. with four drives, 3/4 data and 1/4 for overhead. With raid 5 the more drives the better utilization of space.
You do get better space utilization using raid 5, but becuase it is component specific, for the average home user I cant recommend raid 5.
Doug Fletcher
Chief,
I run a raid on my current system and would not be without one. Both machine are Dell's and the raid controller's are built on board. Once you set the raid up it will automatically mirror the C drive.
Hess,
Checked out your website and it looks great. New drive is a Hitachi but thanks for the heads up.
Dan,
I forgot to make a comment about your system. I don't recall the price but it was over $100 for each of my RAID controllers. What I don't recall is if you have to download everything on your C drive to an external drive to switch from a RAID 0 or 1 to a RAID 5. If you're series out taking the leap, I suggest that you save up enough for the controller and at least 2 more drives about the same size as what you now have. The more drives you have installed on your RAID controller, the less you lose to whichever process it uses, whether a mirror, striping or..... DAMMIT, the old memory is acting up again and I'm not talking about the computer's. Oh, I remember now. RAID 5 uses parity and possibly striping but I"m not sure. I'll ask my kid about it and let you now.
Chief
seabass
10-27-2009, 03:55 PM
Use raid for speed forget the mirroring and get an HP Home server and do your duplication on that.
A couple of Velociraptors in Raid and using the Home network, I get blazing fast speed and the safety of duplication. (HP Server is NOT true Raid at all but does have the duplication feature).
Why waste the Raid on duplication when speed makes the computer so much more fun.
All I know is I had no idea what I was missing until I got super fast hard drives in a Raid configuration. Even without Raid, one WD Velociraptor Hard Drive with the OS on it will change your computer and you will never go back.
Of course if all this is within the budget....
earlyrider
10-27-2009, 11:00 PM
I use Raid only for flying insects. Never had a use for Velociraptors; they're too small. Now, a Dromeosaur gets a little closer; but a Megalosaur or Tyrannosaur can get the job done.:mrgreen:
Ron
c6craig
10-27-2009, 11:06 PM
C'mon now...I saw the movie - those Velociraptors were some bad *** little dudes....
Anyway, good luck on your PC purchase. :)
Craig
fwharris
10-27-2009, 11:12 PM
Man is Kix going to be surprised if and when ever he comes back to see all the answers to his question!!! Lots to think about!!
seabass
10-27-2009, 11:13 PM
Yep, little, but fast and mean!
http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=459
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136322
earlyrider
10-27-2009, 11:19 PM
The movies always exagerate- the V. were lucky to stand around 24" tall and 4' long. The big one was justified by a critter called "Utahraptor", in my opinion, an animal poorly represented by a partial skeleton. Like half a floppy disk in a Commodore 64.
Did that make any sense?:rolleyes:
Ron
seabass
10-27-2009, 11:22 PM
I thought the Velociraptors were about turkey size.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velociraptor
Holy Moly!
Talk about opening a can of worms! I appreciate all of the responses, even though some of it goes over my head a bit, ok alot. Right now I am running 3gig and 1.5 g ram. I think my board is maxed out on ram slots unless I want to start dropping more serious money on memory, or at least that was the strategy since last time I upgraded this unit.
I am okay with the deskptop I have, it moves along, I dont really need much. But I want to get a laptop so I can design away from home, more specifically, wherever my customers are. I am an outside corporate sales rep for Verizon Wireless, so the idea of taking my business to my prospects and customers makes a whole lot more sense to me than trying to have a storefront or professional shop, or even a website.
Having a smooth laptop that I can show exactly what the item will look like to the customer gives me a much better chance of closing a deal. But I cant tolerate lagging in the rendering or unresponsiveness in the system or software, as I plan to have the customer sitting beside me.
So to make a long story short, thanks for all the input.
I'm going shopping now.
c6craig
11-01-2009, 03:22 PM
Good luck, post back with the results of your shopping! Just remember that things tend to get cheaper and cheaper the closer we get to the holidays (door busters, coupon sales, etc.) so don't fret if you don't find what you want on your first trip out.
Craig
Done and Done!
Finally got my new puter.
HP Pavilion dv7-3160us Entertainment Notebook
Dual Core 2.5 Mhz processor
4 Gig Ram expandable to 8
512 mb video card
500 Gig hard drive
17" led screen
Windows 7 (kind of scary, i would be happy with XP)
Leather, Power windows, Air Conditioning,
Draws real smooth too!
On sale at Micro Center for $850 AND $150 back in mail in rebates.
Thanks guys for all your input!
c6craig
03-14-2010, 10:44 AM
Kix,
Congrats on the purchase! Sounds like a good machine and should serve you well!
Craig
Capt Bruce
03-14-2010, 05:10 PM
My congratulations as well Kix.
I'm disappointed that they didn't offer the leather interior on mine when I picked up a new Toshiba Satellite this year to compliment the CW. Sounds like you got all the important components.
I went with just the philosophy you spoke to, on the fast rendering making the sale. I've been offering just that to potential customer for signs and plaques. Seeing it rotate on the screen of the notebook in finished wood colors and high gloss makes all the difference. They can almost feel it in their hands. To cinch the deal offer to e-mail them the rendering as a confirmation of the order (and you get their contact information at the same time for future sales).
Enjoy the HP Pavilion!
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