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jab73180
10-23-2009, 09:07 PM
hey everybody,
i was just wondering how people price their work? i think i want to charge by the board foot because it is more fair and easier to calculate. i searched for answers but found nothing for soft wood vs hard wood product prices, and finished vs no finish products prices. i was thinking $20/$40 for softwood and $30/$50 for hardwood. is $20 b/f good for finishing costs?

my next question, is it fair to charge $40 for a pine knots and crosses game without finish? i was thinking $20 was fair with finish. is it better to do a mass production type of product like that a lil cheaper?


any help would be appreciated and cant wait to see what people post, i think it will be interesting.

Icutone2
10-23-2009, 09:43 PM
I get 20.00 for machine time + Lumber and finishind, programing I consider machining time. Works for me.
Lee

Ike
10-23-2009, 09:55 PM
hey everybody,
i was just wondering how people price their work? i think i want to charge by the board foot because it is more fair and easier to calculate. i searched for answers but found nothing for soft wood vs hard wood product prices, and finished vs no finish products prices. i was thinking $20/$40 for softwood and $30/$50 for hardwood. is $20 b/f good for finishing costs?

my next question, is it fair to charge $40 for a pine knots and crosses game without finish? i was thinking $20 was fair with finish. is it better to do a mass production type of product like that a lil cheaper?


any help would be appreciated and cant wait to see what people post, i think it will be interesting.

Jab, this subject has been posted before and I copied this hope it helps?

Griz, I do own a sign shop and if it helps I charge by the board foot. For example I have pre cut sign blanks 6", 8", 10", 12" wide 24" long. For residential signs I charge $30.00 to $35.00 a board foot depending on the amount of work. I.E. for a recessed letter with just black spray paint maybe a simple image $30.00. For raised lettering with color paint and or detailed image. $35.00.

This works for all sizes you take the thickness times the width times the length divided by 144. Simple example a 1" thick board 12" wide and 24" long = 2 board feet. 1 X 12 X 12 / 144...12 x 12 = 144 divided (/) by 144 = 1 board foot. Please take no offense if you know how to figure board feet and to everyone else who knows. This is for those who do not and wants to learn how. Another common misunderstanding I get from my customers they confuse the width of a board with the length.

Anyway back to pricing I have in the past had separate charges for finish and for images. That became too confusing for my wife so I went with the set price. I do still charge more for a detailed or special pattern.

For commercial signs same thing except now the thickness of the board sometimes changes. Say you have a sign order for a 4 foot wide 8 foot long 2 inch thick sign. The formula is 2" x 48" x 72" / 144 = 48 board feet. I charge $50.00 to $ 65.00 a board foot for commercial. Plus with 2" stock you see it doubles the board foot. I often drop the 2" to 1", why? Let's say it is a pretty easy sign with the above measurements. I would charge $50.00 a foot. That would be $2400.00 that would be great if you can get that, but I only know of well established sign shop getting that price! So I would charge $1200.00.

Now you are thinking I can't make that big of sign with the CW! Yes you can!! You design it in parts and it takes some calculation, but it can be done! Another commercial size sign I offer for Ranches, boardwalk type signs are 12" to 14" wide by 48" long so a 12" by 48" is 4 board feet 1" x 12" x 48" / 144 = 4 board feet. Again $45.00 to $65.00 and anything between! For a ranch sign I charge $180.00 to $250.00.

Ok now I have made this look far too much trouble it really is not! You buy your lumber either by the board foot or linear foot. With linear they charge the price times the length of the board. Board and linear is the same cost with 12" stock. Another thing to keep in mind even though the board you buy is 11 1/2" wide and 5.5" for 6" etc. you are paying for the true size. So pass it on to the customer! Remember a 6" x 8 foot board may cost say $20.00 for example, you can get 4 signs out of it and if the signs are $30.00 each you made $120.00 just off the board and finish and paint is minimal not even $3.00 and $5.00 for the board. Material cost $ 8.00 per sign for a profit of $22.00 per sign times $88.00 for a $32.00 investment! (less your time)

Charging by how long the CW takes to make the sign is a double edge sword in my opinion. Say the sign 6" take 15 minutes to make and you charge $20.00 an hour then 15 min. is $5.00 and say $ 5.00 for the board and paint and finish $5.00 and another $10.00 for time you are at the $30.00. That works out.

I have a cabin sign I charge $85.00 that takes almost 5 hrs. to make by the CW. There is $100.00 there then another $10.00 for the board and with this sign more like $10.00 for finish including my time so I am at $120.00. I tried that price and sold none. The sign is 12" by 24" so 2 board feet and detailed I tried $60.00 a foot also for tying up the machine. I love the sign, but it takes so long to make. So I went to $42.50 more then the $35.00 to cover the extra time.

As I said I have a sign business and hand route and use my CW for special signs. I attend festival, craft fairs etc. and make the signs on the spot. If I just had the CW to use it could not keep up. So I would just offer the signs that took 30 min or less to make and sold them without finish. Or just take orders and charge shipping cost or add it into your price.

I just came back from a very busy event I could not keep up with even by hand or CW! I knew each sign would cost anywhere from $15 to $20.00 to ship. So I offered $10.00 shipping not to lose the business. I was looking for volume to cover the extra cost. As I said if I was just taking orders I would reduce the shipping or add it to the price.

Lol I have wrote a chapter not a post! Feel free to pm me and I will give me you my number and explain anything I didn't explain well!

Ike

PS for the full topic go to the Would like advice from sign makers thread

jab73180
10-24-2009, 07:09 AM
thanx ike,
i understand it pretty well. something i forgot to mention was adding the price for each pattern. i thought i read some where that you only use oak or cedar to make your signs. western red cedar i think it was. i would dare to guess that you would charge a lil less for a pine sign and a lil more for a oak or hardwood sign.


and back to the knots and crosses, what would you charge for that game? would you charge less where it is a mass type produced game with lil detail?

jab73180
10-24-2009, 11:35 AM
anybody else have some input???

Eagle Hollow
10-24-2009, 02:53 PM
anybody else have some input???

I charge $65/ sq.ft. carved, painted and 3 coats spar varnish. Take it or leave it. Most of my production with the Compucarve is for added value on furniture pieces which I price by adding design time, carving and cleanup time to the end price.

unitedcases
10-24-2009, 08:05 PM
Its a very interesting question. I have wondered myself so what I do is 15 dollars an hour and I always round up. So if my carve is 2 1/2 hours I charge 45 dollars. That little bit makes up for setup and getting the wood. Now that is just the machine time. After that I try to research what I am doing and see what other people sell it for. That gives me a baseline. I know that wasnt much help but sometimes we make it harder on ourselves. There is alot to consider.

jjack9485
10-24-2009, 09:06 PM
I use $30 per board foot for select pine, $40 bd ft for Oak or Western Cedar.

Jack

Ike
10-24-2009, 09:53 PM
thanx ike,
i understand it pretty well. something i forgot to mention was adding the price for each pattern. i thought i read some where that you only use oak or cedar to make your signs. western red cedar i think it was. i would dare to guess that you would charge a lil less for a pine sign and a lil more for a oak or hardwood sign.


and back to the knots and crosses, what would you charge for that game? would you charge less where it is a mass type produced game with lil detail?

No Jason I use reclaimed old growth redwood and with special patterns I charge the customer the price it cost me or adjust the per board price. Once you buy the pattern you can use it over and over again. So if you were going to charge $50.00 a board foot and you need a special pattern then charge $60.00 etc.

I never use pine and cedar messes me up. Redwood works best for me. Basically material does factor in the price so I suggest to adjust to what fits best.

Ike

jab73180
10-25-2009, 11:11 AM
well doug, there are some flaws in your plan. you didnt add the cost of any consumables like bits, stains, polys, sanding paper or anything like that. another thing is you set your max wear out on the cw at 250 hours. i think that is very under rated. you think that you will go through 2 cw's in the time its gonna take to wear out a table saw. now figuring you use your machine 20 hours a week, its only gonna last 12.5 weeks. people are gonna be knocking down your door to get that machine. ask digitalwoodshop AL how many hours on his machine.



your method must work for you because you use it, but i think a simpler per square foot method is easier and quicker to figure out. i just need to figure out that magic number to make it all work. im thinking $30 s/f for softwood + patterns and no finish and $50 s/f for softwood + patterns finished. for hardwood $40 s/f + patterns no finish, and $60 s/f + patterns finished. that should cover everything including sandpaper, bits, stain, and poly.

dbfletcher
10-25-2009, 08:35 PM
I am actually starting to believe I wasn't cutout for the CW/CC nor this forum.

Sincerely

Can you explain your issues with the forum? I am sure no one has meant any disrespect.

Thanks,

Doug Fletcher

jab73180
10-25-2009, 10:17 PM
i didnt mean it that way. that is just way more number crunching than i want to do. i didnt know your numbers wernt to be taken as accurate. your right the sandpaper was in the post, i just forgot about it. i can see you are really excited about the machine and the forum. a lot of excitement actually. sorry if i offended you.

dcalvin4
10-25-2009, 10:52 PM
DSAJON I appreciate your appraisal an is prob close to acurate . I never realized the total cost of doing buisness untill my son became an accountant.I retired from a job early, and now doing handyman and remodlingand in our slow econmy it is hard to tell people that I charge 25. doll an hour when most people are making a lot less so I charge by the job and dont mention all my expences as they dont want to hear it ,they want something done that they cant or unqualified to do.[usually the husband introduces me to wife and says give her what she wants I gotta go golfing]I know the are the behind the scenes figures not to be revealed to the customer and they are a good way to see if its feasable to do buisness or keep it a hobby so you got my vote.
last time i had my car worked on it was like 45.doll an hour plus 8.dol for shop rags....the tire man gets price of tire plu valv stems plus cost to get rid of ole tire plus mount and balance plus maybe next year a tax for national security? .........just rambling an venting .good nite
denny

WRW
10-25-2009, 11:14 PM
Hi Doug
I would like to thank you for your post.
My 2 cents.
People like you, Ike and others, that take the time to type the lengthy informative posts, (IMHO) are what make this forum great.
My wife and I are about to try our first craft fair, and have been trying to decide what to make and of course how to price what we make, and find these posts of great value. I don’t just read the posts that I find great info in, weather it is pricing or technical, I copy them to word doc for future reference. An informed decision always makes me more comfortable with my final path.
Before I ramble on for to long, just let me say Thanks again to you and the others that take the time.
I continue to learn and hope to be able to help others in the future.

TIMCOSBY
10-25-2009, 11:43 PM
thanks for the time you put into that. a lot of people that havent been in bussiness wont get it until they are in bussiness for a while. my employees would see the price of each job and just knew i was making a killing they didnt think about uncle sam and a lot of the things you mentioned.

and by the way i've said this befor; a freind of mine got a qoute from a sign company for a 30"x30" sand blasted wood sign with a company name on it.......$2500. when first starting out you tend to sell yourself short and leave a lot of money on the table.

liquidguitars
10-25-2009, 11:48 PM
Doug,

Welcome to the CW forum and thanks for the info it's always good to have new view points on a lot of stuff..

Do not forget equipment devaluation as a tax credit. :)



LG

c6craig
10-25-2009, 11:52 PM
My hat is off to all you guys making and trying to make a living with this stuff.

I feel fortunate as a hobbyist, I only have 2 prices....

Friends and family that you can tell truly admire a piece = FREE

People that just want to buy something = A Million Dollars :)

It sure weeds out the things I don't want to do. I keep telling myself, it's a hobby. As soon as you take money for your work, ITS A BUSINESS.

Not looking for a business, but I have owned them before and feel for you guys. The only advice I can give is not to sell yourself short. If YOU don't value your work, the customer won't either. You can always drop prices if sales are not happening. If those prices drop too low to make it worth your while...it's time to supplement or move on to something else.

Good luck all,
Craig

LittleRedWoodshop
10-26-2009, 06:42 AM
Lots of Great info and things to think about ... thank you for the time that you spent putting that together.

TerryT
10-26-2009, 07:21 AM
Wow, you put a lot of thought into this Doug. Very impressive.

seabass
10-26-2009, 11:10 AM
Simpler:

3-5 times the cost of the material - it's never failed me.

HighTechOkie
10-26-2009, 01:20 PM
well doug, there are some flaws in your plan. you didnt add the cost of any consumables like bits, stains, polys, sanding paper or anything like that. another thing is you set your max wear out on the cw at 250 hours. i think that is very under rated. you think that you will go through 2 cw's in the time its gonna take to wear out a table saw. now figuring you use your machine 20 hours a week, its only gonna last 12.5 weeks. people are gonna be knocking down your door to get that machine. ask digitalwoodshop AL how many hours on his machine.

I see no flaws in Doug's analysis. If you bother to talk to Al and read some of his past comments, you would realize that he has not put 600+ hours on a machine without repairs. At some point, parts will need replaced. Those parts cost money. They also cost time to diagnose the problem, wait for parts to arrive, and then time to install. Meanwhile your are not able to make products to sell, but you still have bills to pay. All big manufacturing companies have an opportunity cost figured in when their machines are down. I know GM would charge some of its suppliers $100,000/hr for parts delays that stopped production.

In no way is Doug's analysis complete. It is a good framework to get you thinking of ALL the expenses you have in building your items. This is where a business plan comes into play. You make an educated guess at your expenses and material use, at the end of each month, you compare your actual expenses and material use to those numbers you planned for, and then look to answer the question: "Why are these number different?" Maybe the machine had problems and ruined a few projects, maybe the electric bill was higher, maybe it is taking you longer to stain and finish an item than you estimated. After several months, you will get a good idea of your regular expenses, and will have better estimates for the future months. There still will be unforeseen things that happen, but they will be less of an issue because you have covered your planned expenses and have money left over as a cushion for those unplanned instances.


i just need to figure out that magic number to make it all work.

There is no "magic" numbers in business. If all of this hurts your head, maybe you should consider a 9-5 JOB. The guys that are successful know how much it requires to cover all their expenses including planned maintenance, machine/tool replacement, operating expenses etc. To stay competitive, you need to know this to price your items appropriately. If you can't sell an item to cover your costs and make a profit, you are just a slave (free labor) to your customer. That definitely doesn't make much sense to me.

You should find your local SBA (Small Business Administration) office and visit with them. They can help you with many of these questions are more. They are a great resource and best of all...FREE.

Rob

jab73180
10-26-2009, 01:48 PM
high tech okie, dougs plan is very good, but the figures he came up with were hours over the life of the machine. normal wear and tear and maintenace are different than wearing a machine out completly and having to replace the whole machine. another thing is he was just using the numbers as a guideline, they in no way represent how long each machine would go. i didnt know that at the time. you have to admit 250 hours on a cw isnt that much. like i said, i didnt know his analysis wasnt complete because he had final numbers to give to the customer. wouldnt you think that would be the end of a spreadsheet with the total on it. there is a magic number for me because im not in this to make a living, just to make extra money and the love of the work. none of this hurts my head and i do have a 9-5 job,(actually 730-5). there are special instances where you need to sit back and look and say, "does this look right" some times. if something breaks on this machine it needs to be fixed, that just comes off my gross profit line. if something breaks just fix it, thats what i say.

jab73180
10-26-2009, 01:51 PM
doug, good job and keep up the good work. please go into detail about the finish because that is another question i have in my head. how much does the finish really cost?

HighTechOkie
10-26-2009, 03:21 PM
In Doug's analysis, the 250 hours is meant as a method to calculate a cost of machine time. It does not mean the machine's life is only 250 hours, but that is the period in which we expect to get our $1800 back and have the money to pay for repair/replacement. Obviously we don't know what the machine's actual life is until it becomes to costly to keep replacing parts or a major failure (frame for example) results in replacing the machine. Ideally, you would break it down to a time and materials for each component (lubing flexshaft every 40hrs, replace motor brushes every 150hrs, replace carving bit every 50,000 board feet, etc.) While that approach would generate a very accurate cost of machine time, it is also a huge pain in the rear to go through. Since LHR is willing to warranty the first 200hrs of cut motor time, this gives us a ballpark figure to use. Additionally, the sum of the replacement parts will be greater than buying a complete machine, so $1800 is on the low side as well. So 250 hrs and $1800 are really just educated guesses.

All of this is just to create a starting point for cost estimation. After several months (and several $100s in repairs :) ), you will have a more accurate figure to base actual repair costs to machine motor time. Depending on how you care for your machine will effect its longevity. Some guys take dental picks to their machine after each carve and clean it meticulously and lube rails etc. Others just do a quick vacuum and load the next part. The first guy has more labor involved in preventative maintenance and lower machine break down, while the second has more labor in machine repair and ruined materials when the machine crashes.

The whole idea here is that you should know what it actually costs you to make an item to appropriately set a price. When you are starting out, much of your costs you simply must guesstimate. You should then track your costs to come up with more accurate figures AND to be able to spot when something is wrong and address those costs before they get out of control. The final part of all of this is to determine if this is really just a hobby that costs you money (and a tax write-off) or a business that makes a profit and how much do you send to Uncle Sam.

Rob

TIMCOSBY
10-26-2009, 04:58 PM
you can double your price and do half the jobs and make the same or more.

jab73180
10-26-2009, 05:02 PM
lets settle on a middle ground here. i think that dougs theories are great to figure a board foot, or time price for projects. if you have a 12 x 24 sign, you know your gonna have certain time on certain tools. you can even work up 3 or 5 example prices, average them, keep the highest, do what ever you want, but to have a spreadsheet or something and figure it on every project just seems like a lot of work. the k.i.s.s. method works for me.

whr1900
10-27-2009, 10:34 AM
Just to put in my 2 pennies worth
This discussion has been going on since before i first started on this forum and with everything i have read it still comes back to one thing
LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION
What u may get for a carving in say Cal. or Maine or even the poconoes u will not get in Eastern NC, I have been looking and pricing and there is even a difference between Central NC and the coast. I still believe it comes back to what someone already said READ YOUR CUSTOMER and guage what you think you can get. Not every project will sell for the same price but in todays economy if it balances out and you make a little bit of money THANK GOD and keep on CARVING

William

fwharris
10-27-2009, 10:49 AM
William,

Welcome back, long time no see!!

I think you are very right in your location statement. For me even a 40 mile distance makes a difference. Being in CowTown Colo. vs going just 40 miles to the west. You have to go to where the $$ is.

When I have had inquiring minds ask "how much is that?" and I quote the price some times I get an "Oh really!". They will most often ask how long it takes to make one of those? After telling them just the amount of time to carve it they usually seem to be more receptive to the price quoted.



Just to put in my 2 pennies worth
This discussion has been going on since before i first started on this forum and with everything i have read it still comes back to one thing
LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION
What u may get for a carving in say Cal. or Maine or even the poconoes u will not get in Eastern NC, I have been looking and pricing and there is even a difference between Central NC and the coast. I still believe it comes back to what someone already said READ YOUR CUSTOMER and guage what you think you can get. Not every project will sell for the same price but in todays economy if it balances out and you make a little bit of money THANK GOD and keep on CARVING

William

roughcut
10-27-2009, 03:18 PM
A Rembrandt and a painting Charlie Brown paints may take the same time and materials . But I'll bet the Rembrandt is going to bring more money than Charlie's . Charge what you think it is worth to you.

forqnc
10-28-2009, 08:31 AM
Doug, thank you for sharing your infomation regarding pricing, I don't remember seeing a breakdown that precise. I haven't managed to sell any of my work, but being a hobbyist I got payment from seeing the joy on peoples faces when I gave them something unique.

Too add my 2 cents as William (whr1900) said above, I have seen this discusion on an Electrical forum. Guys will ask advice on how to price a job. I know what works in Manhattan NY will not fly in booneyville VA.
4 ways to look at it and it depends on are you in business or hobbyist

1. In business need to recoup all materials used and pay bills. Higher $
2. Hobbyist not entirely rich, charge to recoup your materials. Cheaper $
3. Hobbyist retired and loaded with cash, give them away for free and enjoy the joy you gave someone. Cheapest $ :mrgreen:
4. Hobbyist comfortable give them away for free and enjoy the joy you gave someone. Cheapest again $ :mrgreen:

I was in the number 4 catagory, I was comfortable to be able to give away some signs to family and friends. If a stranger approached then I might want to recoup at least materials and some of my time. I am the competitor that Doug could be competing against, my bills are paid for wether I make money on a sign or not.

Good Luck to all in business or as a hobbyist.

dbfletcher
10-28-2009, 11:11 AM
Hello Everyone,

I have reviewed my previous post for the purpose of reorganizing the information with some additional explanation and content to clear up any questions or concerns you have with regards to my approach on pricing. I have read all the posts to this thread and there are certainly a variety of different approaches to pricing and they are not wrong. In the end, it is about what works for you and if your needs are being met...then its all good. I had only wished to assist another member of this forum with his question and in effect add another perspective to the elusive notion of pricing.

I will detail in future posts, some of the history and thought processes that eventually brought me to this system or method that I currently employ. You may choose to use, copy, incorporate or disregard the information contained in this post or any previous posts I have written or any future posts I may write as it pertains this thread on the subject regarding price. I personally... do this as a gesture of good will and ask for nothing in return. I would not be where I am at today if it were not for; my parents, church, coworkers, employers, family and friends who have helped me on my path thru life. I have not copied from any other sources nor infringed on any copyrighted material to compile this system or method. I draw only from my own experiences, training and beliefs. Any reference to trademarked names are just that... references. It is your responsibility to obtain the necessary licensing to employ any of their technologies mentioned in any of my posts.

I am not a CPA (Certified Public Accountant) but rather an individual who has worked in the manufacturing community for the past 29 years. I have relinquished my financial dependencies to the afore mentioned community to pursue my life long dream of being in a business of my own. I purchased a CompuCarve from Sears that started a chain of events that eventually led me to this forum to find a group of people whose ideas, activities and the pursuit of woodcrafts and the like, are similar to my own. And have felt compelled to be an active participant since. Again thanks.

If you choose to use the information I provide either as a whole, or in part. You do so of your own accord. If you find yourself to be prosperous and credit your success to any of the information enclosed here in, then let it be your conscience to decide, that you may consider sharing your success with this forum if you feel comfortable in doing so and/or if that is not your forte' but you still feel the need to contribute, then find a locally registered "Not for Profit" organization of your choice, in your part of the world, who's sole purpose for existing is to improve the quality of life for people and make a charitable donation of any amount, or you may choose both, or do nothing. The choice is yours to make.

As part of my professional experience in the pursuit and study of ergonomics, the study of motion (time Studies) and, application of machine tools and their peripheral support systems as they apply to manufacturing processes I offer to current and future members freely any support in the spirit of friendship and hold the governing body of this forum not liable and understand that I am currently a Junior Member subject to its rules and policies.

And to all other members and professionals who can and are willing to contribute; please concider this information "Open Soure" and if any one has additional idea(s), information to improve on, add to, that they may amend my posts with appendages with purpose to establish accuracy and/or improvement for the betterment of this forum, it's members and their respective communities.

I will wait for some feedback before proceeding with any future posts.


Sincerely


Doug,

it sounds like your are considering self-censoring yourself. I hope that you dont. I dont see this forum as anywhere near that formal. Differing opinion fly all the time. And from my stand point, the more information the flows, the better for all of us in the long run. I hope you stick around and continue to contribute to the forum. Most of us here (i say most becuase I know there are some that are just lurkers) are invested heavily in to this very powerful and unique machine (cw/cc), but often times can also be very frustrating as well. The forum is a great place to share horror stories, successes, tip, tricks, practical ideas... off the wall ideas. Anything that strikes your fancy as long as most of the time it in someway realtes to the cw/cc.

This forum at most times has a very "family oriented" feel to it. Of course every now and again a little "sibling" argument may errupt... but in the end, we all want to see each other succeed with this machine... no matter how we are each using our machines (profit, hobby, fun, paper weigth).

I for one will be looking forward to your future posts and insights.

Doug Fletcher

fwharris
10-28-2009, 11:35 AM
Doug,

Another great post with a lot of value added info for hobby carvers to the full production shops. My background is also from a manufacturing giant (well it was at one time) and I can see you have learned and applied the MRPII principals very well.

WRW
10-29-2009, 09:34 AM
Goodmorning Doug

I for one say keep it coming.
Two quotes that I like are:

"Coming together is a beginning. Keeping together is progress. Working together is success."

"If there is any one secret to success, it lies in the ability to get the other person's point of view and see things from that person's angle as well as from your own"

Although they are not my words I think they describe the basis for a great forum such as this one.

dbfletcher
10-30-2009, 01:33 PM
This is a window that we received in about 80 pieces in a box. My wife put it back together like a puzzle. Some of it was missing and had to be reconstructed in those areas. Final product took her about three months to do, working a couple of days per week. This was all cut out using an X-Acto knife. The Lady who commissioned us to do this said it looked better than original. And by the way, the original window that was broke, was over a 100 years old.

If you havnt already looked in to them.. there are lots of vinyl/paper/chipboard cutting machines on the market in a wide range of price points. I have a "klic-n-kut" ... it is great for very accurate cutouts. A computer controlled xacto knife would be a good description for the machine. It does have over 500 grams of pressure so it can also do light engraving is softer metals. I would avoid the low end like "cricut", but you can do some really nice things with them.


Doug Fletcher

Kenm810
10-30-2009, 02:11 PM
Hey Guys,

I have to admit, I bought my wife a "Cricut" Machine for Christmas last year, with all the accessories available at the time to go with it.
She has since added about a half a dozen (that I know of) additional new pattern cartridges to use with it.
Barb, plus my daughter and daughter in-law and their friends have a ball with them,
lots of Custom Card, Scrapbooking, and making parts for Quilting squares.
--- I did sneak in a little time on it for a couple of days, to cut out a few Acid Glass Etching patterns,
I needed for a few sets of cabinet doors I built.

PCW
10-30-2009, 02:19 PM
This is a window that we received in about 80 pieces in a box. My wife put it back together like a puzzle. Some of it was missing and had to be reconstructed in those areas. Final product took her about three months to do, working a couple of days per week. This was all cut out using an X-Acto knife. The Lady who commissioned us to do this said it looked better than original. And by the way, the original window that was broke, was over a 100 years old.


Doug,

Love all of the projects and please let your wife know as well.

I use to do wood sandblasting years ago and I remember using the resist for masking the wood/design it was about a 1/8" thick. Is this material you are using something new or is it just because the glass blasting is quicker and doesn't require a leavier material for masking?

HighTechOkie
11-01-2009, 08:21 AM
$116.19!, that's over $87 a bd. ft. you greedy capitalistic pig! :mrgreen: (This is what the customer thinks)

When you look at the breakdown though, only $14.34 of that is actual profit. This is just over 12% profit margin. The average for most businesses and industries is 10%.

Most small businesses tend to look at the $116 minus $7 for wood and poly, and assume the remaining $109 is profit for the day. Without putting money back for machine replacement/upgrade etc, they end up 2-4yrs later with no money and a bunch of worn out tools.

I think this was a great analysis highlighting a majority of the costs involved. Each shop will be different and the numbers adjusted accordingly. Once you have these figures, it does become very easy to have an Excel spreadsheet to plug in the project bd. ft. and machine time to then come up with a ballpark figure to charge. I would suspect most people tend to do the same type of projects, so the costs will be pretty consistent per bd. ft. After a few projects, you will get a feel for what the average price per bd. ft. is that you need to charge. Then when the non typical project comes along, you refer back to your spreadsheet to quote a price.

This also provides some good insight as to understanding the prices of other businesses we deal with.

Great job Doug.


Rob