Sept. 09 Newsletter

[Ken Massingale]

In the newsletter it announces the new CarversClub. The opening paragraph says:

"The CarversClub is an exclusive club for CarveWright and CompuCarve owners. With the annual membership fee, club members will receive exclusive promotions every month of the year, as well as FREE phone support and 25% OFF all labor costs for repairs."

Does the 'FREE' phone support indicate that fee based phone support is on the horizon????

$150/year membership fee.

[AskBud]

In the newsletter it announces the new CarversClub. The opening paragraph says:

"The CarversClub is an exclusive club for CarveWright and CompuCarve owners. With the annual membership fee, club members will receive exclusive promotions every month of the year, as well as FREE phone support and 25% OFF all labor costs for repairs."

Does the 'FREE' phone support indicate that fee based phone support is on the horizon????

$150/year membership fee.
Quote from the News Letter:
Some of you have already noticed the first phase of our transition including new menu options and real people answering your calls during business hours. This is our new Tiered Support System. Tier 1 - answers incoming calls and resolves issue or routes to appropriate department or next tier Tier 2 - assists with resolution of hardware & software support issues

The second phase will include the implementation of a fee based call support system for customers that are no longer under warranty or that have not joined our CarversClub. Call Support will continue to be free to customers who are under warranty. The fee based support will be charged to the customer at a cost of $25 per incident, not per call and not per issue. A ticket will be opened and the fee processed. The ticket will remain open until the issues of that incident have been resolved. More information will be available soon at carvewright.com

This new policy will take effect 9:00 am Wednesday, September 23, 2009

[joe_s]

Then did the newsletter come out, I have not seen it

I have been getting the newsletters
joe

[AskBud]

Then did the newsletter come out, I have not seen it

I have been getting the newsletters
joe

Mine arrived shortly prior to my post at about 8:20pm 9/18/2009.
AskBud

[Steven Alford]

Here are the changes.....

14 Sep 2009 -- Differences between versions 1.153 and 1.152
* Started adding Pattern Editor help files
* Improved Z-stall handling for CarveWright Racing jig
* Fixed "Check Tracking roller" error during backlash measurement
* Fixed projects with only 1/16" cutting bit that did not cut
* Fixed Spline Tool accelerator key ("V") and in Drawing menu
* Fixed bug where Download Scan was disabled (Pattern Editor feature required)
* Fixed text in Registration Wizard to avoid confusion
* Fixed development tools showing up in menus
* Fixed unnecessary "Cannot Cut Through" error

[dbfletcher]

Well.. I sure hopes that means we will get to speak to a live person a little more often as well. Seems by posts on the board it is still a dicey proposition when you try to call them.

Doug Fletcher

[AskBud]

If they charge for tech support they can kiss alot of users goodbye. If it worked even 80% out of the box it might be worth it, as it stands, sales will drop alot in the future.

More justification for the 5 year warranty from Sears.
AskBud

[dbfletcher]

Of course this is a golden opportunity for some of the senior members to start their own third party service center. I'd gladly pay anyone of them 20+ an hour for their advice (which they seem quite satisfied to just give away for free here!).

Just a thought.

Doug Fletcher

[Steven Alford]

Of course this is a golden opportunity for some of the senior members to start their own third party service center. I'd gladly pay anyone of them 20+ an hour for their advise (which they seem quite satisfied to just give away for free here!).

Just a thought.

Doug Fletcher

Bite your tongue Doug!!!!!!

[Jeff_Birt]

OK folks keep this civil of keep it too yourself.

[jlovchik]

I was saving the announcement but LHR has a new chuck in testing. It will be ready this fall.

[PCW]

I have to agree on this move as well. They never seem to have the customer best interest on their priority list.

I think they are a victim of their own demise by not listening to the customers wants and needs. The company needs to get back to good old business practices.

One of these days I'm going to log-in here and find http:carvewright.com not found.

I really wish LHR well and hope they survive these lean times.

I just read that they have a new chuck in the lineup. That a good move in the right direction.

[c6craig]

OK Folks, I'll put on my flame-proof suit and step up.....

I know I am fairly new to the forum but I will throw my two cents in.

I'm honestly split 50-50 the way I feel about this. On one hand, we all know that the company is doing what it can to stay afloat in these hard economic times. As much as we all love what we do and love the craft of woodworking, LHR is first and foremost a business. Keep this in mind - if they go under, what are you going to do for tech support? What are you going to do to get replacement parts? This forum is a powerful tool and the people on it go out of their way to help but it cannot replace LHR tech support no matter how hard we try.

On the other hand, the machine is known to have some significant quality issues, and I understand completely the reaction from most. We expect a company to stand behind a product they sell. Tech support has been lacking (mostly in response and availability in my opinion), and perhaps this will make it better. If they are charging for tech support, hopefuly they will be adding some tech support staff so that we can actually get through when we need to.

I'm not sure how they are losing money on tech support though. I have two machines, one new direct from LHR and one I bought as a no warranty refurb from Ebay. I have called many many times on my refurb...but I have also bought around $800 in replacement parts for it as well.

All in all - I honestly think LHR is doing the best they can right now. I am small time compared to some of you guys with 3 and 4 machines, but as a garage hobbyist I still have around 5 grand in this (between the 2 machines, probe, centerline, parts, patterns, projects, shipping, upgraded this and thats, etc).

BOTTOM LINE - I will plan to pay my $150 bucks a year and just consider it a protection on my investment....seriously, who of us is really going to throw their machines in the street after spending what we have spent on them? If a lousy $150 if what it takes to keep the CC/CW world going, then count me in.

Good luck LHR - do what you have to in order to stay around....:cool:

Best wishes,
Craig

[TerryT]

Well Jeff just deleted my last post. Guess not much use in re posting. He seems to have the power. Whether is is for the good or not remains to be seen.

[jlovchik]

It amazes me how some people want to villify LHR at every turn. To make the accusation that LHR is trying to screw their customers is not only hurtful but unbelievable untrue. In fact the carversclub and charging for support was a plan created by one of you users. This was someone with experience running a small business who understood that giving everything away for free was unsustainable. Especially in a down economy a company needs to be optimizing it's operations to be me more efficient. This company has done everything in it's power to accomodate it's users always. We wnat to provide the best support available, but as our customer base grows our free support becomes unsustainable. Who does this hurt? You the customer. The carversclub is designed to be a great product all on it's own. Thanks to one of you. We have a way to build our support department into what it needs to be for you the user. I want every user to call and get answers. Is that too much to ask?

[Frederick_P]

I'm going to have to agree with Craig on this one. Sure the machine has some flaws, most of which can be worked around, but it still does some amazing things and I for one would hate to have to park it because I can't get parts for it any more. I hope that LHR prospers and if they do, I am sure that they will be able to expand their support and service but right now it seems that there are way too few people trying to do the best they can with what they have. Supporting them now will ensure a better and more exciting future for us all.

Edit: Joe I missed the post the first time but I think you have more support than it may seem from the few on this thread

[c6craig]

It amazes me how some people want to villify LHR at every turn. To make the accusation that LHR is trying to screw their customers is not only hurtful but unbelievable untrue. In fact the carversclub and charging for support was a plan created by one of you users. This was someone with experience running a small business who understood that giving everything away for free was unsustainable. Especially in a down economy a company needs to be optimizing it's operations to be me more efficient. This company has done everything in it's power to accomodate it's users always. We wnat to provide the best support available, but as our customer base grows our free support becomes unsustainable. Who does this hurt? You the customer. The carversclub is designed to be a great product all on it's own. Thanks to one of you. We have a way to build our support department into what it needs to be for you the user. I want every user to call and get answers. Is that too much to ask?

I wouldn't worry too much jlovchik. LHR will do what it needs to do to stay alive. We are all big boys and girls and everyone will make the decision they think is best for them. I don't know of anyone that is going to say, "well screw that, 25 bucks or 150 a year is crazy, i'll just let this sit here broken".

It's kind of like gas prices, they go up and everyone screams. I don't see the world crushing their cars and buying bicycles. I will continue to gas up when I need to, and I will pay my 150 bucks a year and wish LHR all the luck in the world to thrive.

Craig

[c6craig]

Well Jeff just deleted my last post. Guess not much use in re posting. He seems to have the power. Whether is is for the good or not remains to be seen.

I saw the post as well, I personally don't think it needed to be deleted but I am not a mod. The forum should include everyone's ability to say what they think, provided it's not offensive. Everyone has a valid opinion here, sometimes they just differ.

Craig

[Steven Alford]

It amazes me how some people want to villify LHR at every turn. To make the accusation that LHR is trying to screw their customers is not only hurtful but unbelievable untrue. In fact the carversclub and charging for support was a plan created by one of you users. This was someone with experience running a small business who understood that giving everything away for free was unsustainable. Especially in a down economy a company needs to be optimizing it's operations to be me more efficient. This company has done everything in it's power to accomodate it's users always. We wnat to provide the best support available, but as our customer base grows our free support becomes unsustainable. Who does this hurt? You the customer. The carversclub is designed to be a great product all on it's own. Thanks to one of you. We have a way to build our support department into what it needs to be for you the user. I want every user to call and get answers. Is that too much to ask?


Please don't take this post the wrong way, and Jeff, don't censor me, please!!

We all know how the economy has been. I personally have been unemployed for 6 months now. Don't know how I am going to pay next month's mortgage.
Every time we turn around someone wants more money, money and more money. I am just getting sick of it. Nothing personal. It's like with the taxes, for gosh sakes, there are other ways of getting revenue besides constantly raising taxes. What are they going to do when we finally pay 100% of our paycheck to taxes? Then where are you going to get more taxes from?

It just seems to me that LHR could find an alternative to this plan. Such as getting that parts thing online going so that you can make money faster by us ordering online. That may even make it so that you can get by with less labor.
Nothing person LHR, I for one am just sick and tired of being nickel and dimed to death!!! (And yes, that is three exclamation points)

[Frederick_P]

So I live in Canada. Will the Carvers club provide me with the same benefits as the American members?

[Jeff_Birt]

As I said before guys, and to both of you personally too, just keep it civil. Constructive criticism is a good thing and can help everyone. Calling folks names and making senseless accusations is not constructive or helpful to anyone.

[Wild Bill]

Should be an increase in used machine listings on eBay soon. Probably, price on used machines will come down making for some good deals.

[dbfletcher]

I have to admit.. i was shocked when i went back thru and saw my post had been deleted as well... talk about have thin skin!

I think there are a number of us who have a love/hate relationship with this machine. A little venting now and again isnt a bad thing.

But if you feel it had to go jeff... then not much any of us can do about it.

Doug Fletcher

[PCW]

Think about what you are doing when you hit the delete button. Is it to the point where you can't express your self in a civil manner here without the fear of getting your post deleted.

[Steven Alford]

That's why we have CarveSpot isn't it??

[AskBud]

Let's not overlook Joe's announcement (10pm EDT 9/18/2009) about a new chuck on the way!
AskBud
http://forum.carvewright.com/showpost.php?p=103751&postcount=11

[Jeff_Birt]

I give up guys, Really! All I have asked is that everyone follows the forum rules and be civil. Saying things like 'screw the customer route' is neither constructive or civil.

Notice how many other post are on this very subject expressing many differnet points of view.

[fwharris]

I for one would like to see this topic get back on track.

If you have a problem with others on the forum either PM them or start a new post!!

[gsdsj]

My 2 bits, I don't post much and the reason why is most answers to problems are right here on the forum. I called the other day with a software issue and talked to two people live, no voice mail or please hold, nice change. One of my problems I posted in the last two days regarding the pattern editor on a Mac I only received 3 responses on the forum and no solution. Guess I'll have to call LHR on Monday. I don't think even after warranty I should have to pay for advise on software glitches. As far as hardware support and possible perks after warranty, $150 might not be a bad insurance policy, still rather not pay it but hey it's not a cheap machine or hobby. Greg

[dbfletcher]

I agree 100%... but neither of my "deleted" posts said anythng like that. As I said a minite ago... sometime its best to let people vent a bit.

This message may/may not self distruct.

I was just relayin my furstration when i got my first machine.. problem after problem... after three month of frustrations and sending it to lhr once... i stuffed it in a corner. When I got it back out a year later... with less than 20 hours on it... called support.. but was told that it was no longer under warrenty.. and had a failing powersupply that i would have just have to buy a new one. I get they have to have limits.. but they also need to be able to look at things on a case by case basis at time. Shouldnt a powersupply last a little longer than 20 hours?

Doug Fletcher

[Lilly]

This is crazy...
I have a very small, did I mention very small ...craft business and only bought my machine a year ago. Is out of warranty and now I have $80.00 + $350.00invested in the last 2 days with no guarantee it will fix the problem...$2000.00for the machine $100.00 for Centerline text. I figure I didn't charge enough for those 35 signs I sold...

I know some of you are big time users of the Carvewright and own several machines...but I think lots of us are just hobby users and are going to have a hard time coming up with the extra $150.00 a year. Thinking if my problem isn't solved when this part comes in...going to return the part while the part is under warranty and just park the machine in the garage.

We'll see, tomorrow I may feel differently.

Lilly

[TerryT]

Paying a reasonable fee for support after the warrentee expires is perfectly acceptable. Many companies do it and those that don't, should. LHR, in my humble opinion, should charge for support after the warrentee. I don't have a problem with that. We can fix the other things that may look like problems though.

[drwatkins]

Ok folks let's sit back just a minute or two and think a bit about all this. I agree with every post on this thread and we're all wrong. It's incredible that these folks would charge us for their quality issues. However, if they fold what are we going to do to support our machines. We could buy a shop bot for six grand plus attachments/software and struggle through their quality issues couldn't we. Think about the actual cost of $150 annual fee. That's $12.50 a month. How much did you spend this week on sodas? With the discounts included you're gonna get most of it if not all back. I do have a big issue if they are charging for software bugs. New versions to software that repair bugs should be free of charge. If there is a new feature being added to the software, I do not have a problem with a reasonable charge. But again, lets take a breath and realize how small the charge is....I mean, how much did you shell out for the bit set you ordered and centerline text and on projects? And I've read here on the forum many cudos from most of you about all these.

Dan

[Steven Alford]

Ok folks let's sit back just a minute or two and think a bit about all this. I agree with every post on this thread and we're all wrong. It's incredible that these folks would charge us for their quality issues. However, if they fold what are we going to do to support our machines. We could buy a shop bot for six grand plus attachments/software and struggle through their quality issues couldn't we. Think about the actual cost of $150 annual fee. That's $12.50 a month. How much did you spend this week on sodas? With the discounts included you're gonna get most of it if not all back. I do have a big issue if they are charging for software bugs. New versions to software that repair bugs should be free of charge. If there is a new feature being added to the software, I do not have a problem with a reasonable charge. But again, lets take a breath and realize how small the charge is....I mean, how much did you shell out for the bit set you ordered and centerline text and on projects? And I've read here on the forum many cudos from most of you about all these.

Dan

Charging for software!! Where did you read that?

This notice, I believe is for just support charges, not for software.

[drwatkins]

I didn't read that, It was just a case scenario of what might be unacceptable. My point was there is nothing that is really unacceptable with this business approach.

[drwatkins]

Actually I didn't read any of the news letter. I thought I was signed up for it but have not received so must not have signed up.

[Digitalwoodshop]

I think this is a Positive Business move in MY opinion....

Think the Glass is Half FULL not Half EMPTY.... What would happen if LHR called it QUITS and went out of Business..... Where would we be then....

That would make me VERY SAD.... It would start bidding WARS on eBay for used machines to use for PARTS..... A Black Market of Stripped Machines would start up and guys like ME would suddenly make my Address UN LISTED.... For fear of being raided by the Black Market Parts guys..... Sounds like a BAD NOVEL....

I see this as a POSITIVE MOVE.... PLUS the NEW CHUCK.....

That is my 2 Cents....

AL

Lilly, the artwork you posted was FANTASTIC !!!! You need to charge what your WORTH.... I raised all my prices and I keep getting MORE work.... You could hand carve the signs but we pay for TECHNOLOGY.....

[geekviking]

Not to mention the secret hit squad societies of black garbed "Parts Ninjas" that would start turning up from Japan & China to get in on the business!!!
I'd have to start a whole new Dojo dedicated to the protection of free Carvewright owners...
(Actually starting to sound like a GOOD novel... :cool:)

OR- "Carvewright - The movie!" :)

[Digitalwoodshop]

I talked to Chris today and he asked what version of Designer I was using.... 1.134.... It works and I am making MONEY with it..... I can't afford software related down time... I have 3 weeks of carving after a busy labor day weekend....

I support LHR.... If they called it QUITS.... Then I would be scrambling to get back to where I am today with my comfort zone of machine and designer.... Throw a Shop Bot at me.... I would do well but why if the CW machine meets my needs..... Why bother....

We ALL need LHR to be Successful..... They make the PARTS and support the SOFTWARE.... Unplug the CARD and you have a DOOR STOP..... OK.... RON and I would offer a after market Planer Head setup to make a Brain DEAD Wood Planer out of the CW.... Or the Thickness Sander version as a after market device... You sometimes don't appreciate something until it is GONE......

I had a life changing experience a few years ago. I grew up on a Dairy Farm and my Uncle upgraded in 1967 to the latest and greatest.... Blue Glass and Steel Harvester Silos for Cow Feed, the latest in High Tech Stainless Steel Milk holding tanks and all the piping from COW to tank....

I watched all this being installed, ALL this HIGH TECH stuff.... It really changed me as a kid..... My fascination with it was the inspiration to my High Tech Career..... Well while I was off playing NAVY in the late 70's President Carter cut the price of MILK in half to the Farmers.... My Uncle had set expenses with all the high tech equipment.... With the price cut he was now SHORT each month..... Within 3 years he lost the family farm..... Three years ago I visited the former Family Farm that is now a horse farm. Much is still the same, but the single most shocking site was the Milk House that held all the High Tech Equipment and Stainless Milk Tanks..... It was now a CHICKEN COOP...... The Holes still in the walls.... The Equipment gone in the big Auction many years ago.....

So if you look at this POSITIVE Change by LHR to be DETERMINED TO SURVIVE.... I say GO FOR IT.....

We all second guessed my Uncle... Could he have sold Land to keep the main farm.... At the time it would not have worked..... He did the best he could at the time..... Later he worked for K Mart and after years working K Mart let a bunch go including my Uncle. Then they said you can "Come Back" at a starting wage and no benifits...... I hate K Mart to this day because of it....

Look at it as a DETERMINATION to SURVIVE as a Business.....

AL

[hess]

Well you know I got to say somthing here.

I was not real comfortable when I came here with a new CW and worried about paying the money for the POMs. I have to say it was the best $ spent. Now it for 150.00 CW gives us what mike does than I'm ok with it. I do however wonder what we all would do if we pay the $ and cant get the service. that would suck.

Good to see they are making a new chuck. long over due but better late than never. I will say with the Rock if for no other reason than that Ron met our needs and CW did not

I wonder when the POMs will go up?

[SteveEJ]

The new chuck, if of a good design like Ron's, is a great announcement.

Keeping a US company in business is also a good thing. Now, along with the fee based support, I would hope that the consumer would have a chance to resolve their issues with a good centralized database of documents and how to's.. We have built up this information ourselves and have access to what we need BUT I do remember how difficult it was when I first started out. That should NOT BE too much to ask.

I also would love to see them go towards US based parts companies that used US manufactored parts.

Just my 2 bits..

[Creekwood]

I have a project already to download (or upload) to the flashcard.
Will the new software 1.53, be changed on that already existing project.
It involves cutouts.

[Steven Alford]

Only if you download and install the update BEFORE you use the project (and re-save it with the new update). If you upload it now to your memory card before you update, not it will not. Personally, I am going to wait to hear from others on this new update. It seems that there are always problems with their updates.

[pine acres woodshop]

So what exactly is considered as phone support? Lets say I have to call in to order a part, does it cost me $25.00 in addition to the cost of the part? Now lets say I have to buy a new computer and I load all my Carvewright software on the new computer, now my BIOS has changed which would make the software inoperable, so I have to call in so they can update the information to make the software useable, does this also cost me $25.00? Can someone explain to me what is being considered as phone support?