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jonathan68
09-10-2009, 01:12 PM
I've attached my original PNG file, the MPC file as well as a photo of the outcome. I've been unable to figure out why this happens?

The carve is over-carved if that makes sense. It's almost as though the machine is cutting on the line as apposed to - up to the line. The walls of the object are smaller and the the circle is out of proportion and too small as well.

I switched from a jpg format to a png which didn't seem to fix it. I make the dimension of the imported file the same as they are in photoshop with the exact same thickness as the mpc file so that my white and gray depths work accordingly.

What am i doing wrong?

cnsranch
09-10-2009, 02:10 PM
A number of things wrong -

1. Board isn't long enough - need at least 3.5" on each end from your pattern. Since you don't, the board is not staying under the rollers, and is likely tipping. Also, when loading into the machine, it may be asking you to "Scale to Fit" - if you say yes, the machine will make the pattern fit the board (that doesn't have the extra 7" on it) and the result will be whacky (that's a technical term).

2. You're trying to carve the pattern through the board - looks good in Designer, but it doesn't carve quite all the way through evenly. That's because the board isn't exactly .5" thick throughout. You're better off placing the pattern on the board - telling Designer exactly how deep to carve it, then drawing a rectangle shape around the pattern, creating a carve region in the rectangle, and checking "pierced". You'll have to manually add tabs to hold the pattern, but it will give you something more of what you want.

3. Select "Bit Optimization - Best" and no feather on the pattern. You'll like the results better.

4. Re the size of the carve - when bringing the pattern into your Designer board, make sure to uncheck "Scale to Fit Board" on the bottom right of the page view.

5. I'm not sure why it's so far off re the centering on the board - must have to do with "scale to fit" option on the machine - either that, or the board's not being measured correctly. If you highlight the pattern (on the left of Designer's view, right click, and then center both horiz and vert, that will potentially eliminate that.

Those are just a few things - could be more, but I'm not really sure what you're trying to accomplish - that pattern is certainly one off. Let me know if this helps, and what else you need to make this the way you want it.

jonathan68
09-10-2009, 02:34 PM
Thanks so much for looking into this. I've posted my comments under yours. Nothing seems to cure my problem.


A number of things wrong -

1. Board isn't long enough - need at least 3.5" on each end from your pattern. Since you don't, the board is not staying under the rollers, and is likely tipping. Also, when loading into the machine, it may be asking you to "Scale to Fit" - if you say yes, the machine will make the pattern fit the board (that doesn't have the extra 7" on it) and the result will be whacky (that's a technical term).

-The board had about a foot on each side and I kept the actual size set and asked it to place in the corner. Keep under rollers selected as well.

2. You're trying to carve the pattern through the board - looks good in Designer, but it doesn't carve quite all the way through evenly. That's because the board isn't exactly .5" thick throughout. You're better off placing the pattern on the board - telling Designer exactly how deep to carve it, then drawing a rectangle shape around the pattern, creating a carve region in the rectangle, and checking "pierced". You'll have to manually add tabs to hold the pattern, but it will give you something more of what you want.

-I have some odd shaped to cut out and they are easy to do in Photoshop. It will be difficult to retrace these in designer.

3. Select "Bit Optimization - Best" and no feather on the pattern. You'll like the results better.

-I've tried best and normal and they both turn out the same. I don't think I've ever feathered it either.

4. Re the size of the carve - when bringing the pattern into your Designer board, make sure to uncheck "Scale to Fit Board" on the bottom right of the page view.

Always do this.

5. I'm not sure why it's so far off re the centering on the board - must have to do with "scale to fit" option on the machine - either that, or the board's not being measured correctly. If you highlight the pattern (on the left of Designer's view, right click, and then center both horiz and vert, that will potentially eliminate that.

This should not be the issue because it keeps it at actual size and just places it in the corner.

Those are just a few things - could be more, but I'm not really sure what you're trying to accomplish - that pattern is certainly one off. Let me know if this helps, and what else you need to make this the way you want it.

cnsranch
09-10-2009, 03:18 PM
Thanks so much for looking into this. I've posted my comments under yours. Nothing seems to cure my problem.

1. Board isn't long enough - need at least 3.5" on each end from your pattern. Since you don't, the board is not staying under the rollers, and is likely tipping. Also, when loading into the machine, it may be asking you to "Scale to Fit" - if you say yes, the machine will make the pattern fit the board (that doesn't have the extra 7" on it) and the result will be whacky (that's a technical term).

-The board had about a foot on each side and I kept the actual size set and asked it to place in the corner. Keep under rollers selected as well.

Maybe it's just the way the pic you uploaded looks. Did you stop the carve before it ended, or is that the way it finished?

2. You're trying to carve the pattern through the board - looks good in Designer, but it doesn't carve quite all the way through evenly. That's because the board isn't exactly .5" thick throughout. You're better off placing the pattern on the board - telling Designer exactly how deep to carve it, then drawing a rectangle shape around the pattern, creating a carve region in the rectangle, and checking "pierced". You'll have to manually add tabs to hold the pattern, but it will give you something more of what you want.

-I have some odd shaped to cut out and they are easy to do in Photoshop. It will be difficult to retrace these in designer.

You have the ability to make odd-shaped pierced carvings - simply use the connected lines tool, made to go around any odd-shaped pattern you have, make that a carve region, and check pierced carving.

3. Select "Bit Optimization - Best" and no feather on the pattern. You'll like the results better.

-I've tried best and normal and they both turn out the same. I don't think I've ever feathered it either.

4. Re the size of the carve - when bringing the pattern into your Designer board, make sure to uncheck "Scale to Fit Board" on the bottom right of the page view.

Always do this.

5. I'm not sure why it's so far off re the centering on the board - must have to do with "scale to fit" option on the machine - either that, or the board's not being measured correctly. If you highlight the pattern (on the left of Designer's view, right click, and then center both horiz and vert, that will potentially eliminate that.

This should not be the issue because it keeps it at actual size and just places it in the corner.

Can't help you here

Those are just a few things - could be more, but I'm not really sure what you're trying to accomplish - that pattern is certainly one off. Let me know if this helps, and what else you need to make this the way you want it.

mtylerfl
09-11-2009, 10:43 AM
I've attached my original PNG file, the MPC file as well as a photo of the outcome. I've been unable to figure out why this happens?

The carve is over-carved if that makes sense. It's almost as though the machine is cutting on the line as apposed to - up to the line. The walls of the object are smaller and the the circle is out of proportion and too small as well.

I switched from a jpg format to a png which didn't seem to fix it. I make the dimension of the imported file the same as they are in photoshop with the exact same thickness as the mpc file so that my white and gray depths work accordingly.

What am i doing wrong?

Hello Jonathan,

Questions for you...

1) Are the little "tabs" on the four sides a part of the actual design, or did you think you needed to draw them in for some reason?

2) This appears to be a very simple layout to draw in Designer directly without the need for using outside graphic programs. Did you try that? I am attaching an quickie example for you to look at - took less than 1 minute to draw directly in Designer, and it will carve and cutout much more neatly than a graphic import.

As far as your carving problems - don't know what the issue is. One thing I would try first off is the choose "Center" for placement on the board instead of "Corner", though.

jonathan68
09-11-2009, 11:56 AM
Hello Jonathan,

Questions for you...

1) Are the little "tabs" on the four sides a part of the actual design, or did you think you needed to draw them in for some reason?

2) This appears to be a very simple layout to draw in Designer directly without the need for using outside graphic programs. Did you try that? I am attaching an quickie example for you to look at - took less than 1 minute to draw directly in Designer, and it will carve and cutout much more neatly than a graphic import.

As far as your carving problems - don't know what the issue is. One thing I would try first off is the choose "Center" for placement on the board instead of "Corner", though.

1) Yes, I couldn't figure out how to place a tab on a photoshop drawing with designer. Is there a simple way?

2) Yes, thank you for going to the trouble of drawing it for me. Unfortunately my complete drawing is much more complicated. This is a small piece of it. I will have to draw it in Photoshop to make it accurate.

I had the same problem when I centered the piece. Does my description of it cutting on the line make sense? It seems to just cut on the lines of my drawing instead of limiting it to the space in between. I tried changing bit optimization as well as set the pattern for both the 1/8 and 1/16 bit in the board settings menu. I'm sure, being a new user, I'm just doing something wrong.

mtylerfl
09-11-2009, 12:27 PM
1) Yes, I couldn't figure out how to place a tab on a photoshop drawing with designer. Is there a simple way?

Well, yeah! (Have you read the Tips & Tricks issues?)

One thing is for sure - you do not make the tabs as part of your original graphics.

If you just need plain, normal cutouts, you simply use is the Cut Path Tool, specify in the Cut-Out Control window how many tabs you want, the height/thickness, max. pass per pass of the cutting bit, etc. All tabs are placed automatically when the project is machined. (In case you didn't already know, the auto-tabs are not visible on-screen.)

You can also make your own manual tabs in Designer a number of different ways (a couple methods are covered in the Tips & Tricks), but is not normally necessary for a "standard" cut out procedure.

Since I have not seen your actual mpc (if you are able to post it, please do), I cannot tell you for sure what your best course of action is. Definitely working with the "unknown" not being able to view your entire mpc.


2) Yes, thank you for going to the trouble of drawing it for me. Unfortunately my complete drawing is much more complicated. This is a small piece of it. I will have to draw it in Photoshop to make it accurate.

No problem. Like I mentioned - less than a minute to draw that simple shape you have there. Can you post your drawing so we can get an idea of its complexity?


I had the same problem when I centered the piece. Does my description of it cutting on the line make sense? It seems to just cut on the lines of my drawing instead of limiting it to the space in between.

If you are using a Cut Path procedure, you can place the cut inside the line, outside the line, and offset the cut in small increments up to 1/8" either way. (Covered in Tips & Tricks)


I tried changing bit optimization as well as set the pattern for both the 1/8 and 1/16 bit in the board settings menu. I'm sure, being a new user, I'm just doing something wrong.

Yeah, that is a possibility. What the root of the problem is, I don't know though. Poor quality/pixilated graphics maybe? The MDF you are using is not compressed enough - i.e., too soft and "fluffy, MDF is slick - maybe not tracking well (use AL's masking tape tip)? Just throwing out some guesses. Not enough specific info (or files to look at) to really go on, unfortunately.

jonathan68
09-11-2009, 05:30 PM
Well, yeah! (Have you read the Tips & Tricks issues?)

One thing is for sure - you do not make the tabs as part of your original graphics.

If you just need plain, normal cutouts, you simply use is the Cut Path Tool, specify in the Cut-Out Control window how many tabs you want, the height/thickness, max. pass per pass of the cutting bit, etc. All tabs are placed automatically when the project is machined. (In case you didn't already know, the auto-tabs are not visible on-screen.)

You can also make your own manual tabs in Designer a number of different ways (a couple methods are covered in the Tips & Tricks), but is not normally necessary for a "standard" cut out procedure.

Since I have not seen your actual mpc (if you are able to post it, please do), I cannot tell you for sure what your best course of action is. Definitely working with the "unknown" not being able to view your entire mpc.



No problem. Like I mentioned - less than a minute to draw that simple shape you have there. Can you post your drawing so we can get an idea of its complexity?



If you are using a Cut Path procedure, you can place the cut inside the line, outside the line, and offset the cut in small increments up to 1/8" either way. (Covered in Tips & Tricks)



Yeah, that is a possibility. What the root of the problem is, I don't know though. Poor quality/pixilated graphics maybe? The MDF you are using is not compressed enough - i.e., too soft and "fluffy, MDF is slick - maybe not tracking well (use AL's masking tape tip)? Just throwing out some guesses. Not enough specific info (or files to look at) to really go on, unfortunately.


Michael,

I've been doing nothing but reading on the Carvewright website and forum for the last two weeks. I have to be honest. I have never seen a more friendly and helpful online community in my life. It's truly fantastic. Of course I spent two days trying to figure out the best way to collect dust and days more on everything else. I've read two monthly articles labeled "Tips and Tricks" and many more but have not found the information we discussed yet.

The "Place Tabs" icon has always been dimmed so I guess I was stupidly stuck. However I just carved your drawing and mine side by side and they still didn't get cut out so I'm still doing something wrong on the outer pierced line with the tabs. I've included a photo.

I'll include a larger view of what I'm carving to give you some idea. It's about three layers thick and 48 inches long but considering the result I believe my error to be unrelated to the third party software.

As you can see by the result. Both carvings were "overcarved" where the circle and the walls are all a little too shaved. I changed nothing on yours so I'm assuming that I'm doing a setting wrong. I copied and pasted yours to a new board. I've attached the file here.

Also, why does the machine carve a small amount off of the entire drawing? The board is .48 and I set the drawing to .5 so the 0 depth areas should not be getting carved. This has always happened to me in the 5 or so carvings that I've done regardless of depth settings the entire board gets shaved?

Thanks,

Jonathan

PCW
09-11-2009, 06:45 PM
Jonathan,

There is a differences between mtylerfl and your drawings. If you look at the two pictures you can see it.

Your center rectangle is .450 deep where as Michael's is .250.

26218

26219

AskBud
09-11-2009, 06:51 PM
If you wish the outer rectangle to be at the very top of your board (not shaved), remove the "Carve Region" and just apply the "Cut-out".
AskBud

jonathan68
09-11-2009, 06:52 PM
Jonathan,

There is a differences between mtylerfl and your drawings. If you look at the two pictures you can see it.

Your center rectangle is .450 deep where as Michael's is .250.

26218

26219

Yes, I was testing for the width of the cuts and not the depth so I didn't change that aspect. The results still show an error that remains a mystery to me. It seems as though the machine is cutting on the line as apposed to up to it. If that makes sense. . . .

PCW
09-11-2009, 06:58 PM
Jonathan,

The line you make in Designer is to the center of the bit. If you are using 1/8" bit you need to subtract 1/16" on all sides on your drawing.

Is this what you where referring to?

HighTechOkie
09-11-2009, 08:27 PM
That concept also applies to patterns. The software only calculates in reference to bit center. If you draw a 2" square, import it and carve it, the result will be 2 1/16" (+1/32 on each side due to bit radius). The deeper the pattern (or carve region), the larger the carving bit's radius affects the amount of overcarve. Not a big deal for the artistic crowd, but a huge PITA for us CAD guys trying to do dimensional parts.

Rob

jonathan68
09-11-2009, 08:55 PM
That concept also applies to patterns. The software only calculates in reference to bit center. If you draw a 2" square, import it and carve it, the result will be 2 1/16" (+1/32 on each side due to bit radius). The deeper the pattern (or carve region), the larger the carving bit's radius affects the amount of overcarve. Not a big deal for the artistic crowd, but a huge PITA for us CAD guys trying to do dimensional parts.

Rob

Rob, I think you have answered my question. It just doesn't make sense that the carve preview would not resemble the finished product but I guess that's what your getting at. I do most of my drawings in Adobe software. Have you found a simple solution other than adding dimensions to your parts?

Does the pattern editor help with this? - just ordered the probe yesterday.

jonathan68
09-11-2009, 08:58 PM
If you wish the outer rectangle to be at the very top of your board (not shaved), remove the "Carve Region" and just apply the "Cut-out".
AskBud

Thanks Bud, do you know if (I apologize if I overlooked this) there is a way to not shave any part of the board? To limit the cuts to the just those areas? Is there a trick or workaround? I will have several patters that will have carving spaced out and it will go much faster for me if I don't have the entire board shaved along with the cuts.


Jonathan

HighTechOkie
09-12-2009, 08:32 AM
Rob, I think you have answered my question. It just doesn't make sense that the carve preview would not resemble the finished product but I guess that's what your getting at. I do most of my drawings in Adobe software. Have you found a simple solution other than adding dimensions to your parts?

Does the pattern editor help with this? - just ordered the probe yesterday.

I do not have the pattern editor, but I don't think it would be of much help in this area. Designer is WYSIWYG, you just have to really zoom in (and turn on the grid) to recognize the overcarve. The only solution at this time is simply to account for the bit's radius when you draw up your designs in Adobe.

Not the prettiest or easiest solution, but that is all LHR has given us.

Rob

mtylerfl
09-12-2009, 08:37 AM
Thanks Bud, do you know if (I apologize if I overlooked this) there is a way to not shave any part of the board? To limit the cuts to the just those areas? Is there a trick or workaround? I will have several patters that will have carving spaced out and it will go much faster for me if I don't have the entire board shaved along with the cuts.


Jonathan

Hello Jonathan,

I modified my example mpc so the outer rectangle and large circle should remain flush with the top of the board with the recessed areas set at 1/2" deep. Hope that helps. Give it a try if you have a chance and let us know if that eliminates the "shaving" problem for you.