Questions

[DocWheeler]

I have two questions, one more serious than the other.

1). I mounted a .75" thick board into a sled with a .75" bottom so that the total height was 1.5". The project has a cutout - when the sled was loaded and it was asking questions was about the cutout depth. Option 1 was .75" Project, option 2 was .5" Board - I chose the .75" Project (that really was the mpc). I got a message about that being too thick to cutout - Abort or Continue.

2). What glue would be best? Is there a carbide glue? (see below)

[Digitalwoodshop]

Silver solder?

Just Kidding....

Tuff Luck.... Something must have moved in the X direction to snap the bit....

AL

[DocWheeler]

Al,

Learning to insert the adapter in the 1/2" Rock - I know better now!

What about question #1!

[DocWheeler]

I was wondering why there was no response to my question yesterday. This morning, I realized that I really did not ask it correctly - so here goes.


1). I mounted a .75" thick board into a sled with a .75" bottom so that the total height was 1.5". The project has a cutout - when the sled was loaded and it was asking questions was about the cutout depth. Option 1 was .75" Project, option 2 was .5" Board - I chose the .75" Project (that really was the mpc). I got a message about that being too thick to cutout - Abort or Continue.

Did I select the wrong option? Is this another firmware problem? Are others having this problem? What's with the .5" Board prompt?

I chose continue and it carved the board a little deep.

[Kenm810]

Hi Ken,

I don't have a way to test it right now,
but can't you have the thickness set at 1.50"
to represent the Project Board and the Sled.
But set the Depth of the cutting bit at .75",
and use the Place tabs option.To cut out your project
and not cut into the Sled??

[DocWheeler]

Ken,

That is what I thought I was doing except I was letting the firmware place the tabs.
I was surprised when the machine asked whether I wanted to cut the Project that was .75" thick or the Board that was .5" thick when the thickness of what was in the machine was 1.5" total thickness.
I figured that the .5" (Board) was an error on its part and selected the .75 (Project, isn't that the mpc?), that is when I got the message that it was to thick to cut (Abort/Continue).
Is the Sled the "Board" or is it the "Project"?

[Kenm810]

It's always been my understanding -- the board is the projest,
that's way it's often referred to as the "Project Board"
the Sled is just a Carrier Board with sides and is not really part of the project.
In some of the earlier Versions of Designer we had to add
the two together when we entered the measurements into the machine.
--- Might be wrong but that's the way I read it. :???:

[DocWheeler]

Ken, wish I'd taken pictures!

When the machine was determining the thickness that I wished to cut (.75" into the 1.5" "Thing" that I put into the machine - it asked whether I wanted the cut depth to be the .75 Project or .5 Board. That was confusing since nothing was 1/2 inch and I could not recall the interpretation of LHR's terminology of what was the Project and which was the Board in this instance.
When I selected the .75" cut depth and received an Abort/Continue prompt saying that that was too thick to cutout, I was really confused.

[Kenm810]

Doing the tabs with the firmware placing the tabs may have confused the machine into thinking
you wanted the tabs at the bottom of the sled -1.5"--to deep for the machine to carve.
I'm really not sure where the .5" Board came from at all. http://forum.carvewright.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[DocWheeler]

Since I had another "end" to carve, I decided to take pictures.

I have cut tabs on a board on a sled several times without a problem using pre 1.152 firmware. During the cutout drawing process where the total depth, depth per pass, and and flipcut are there is Tab instructions at the top. The board in the mpc is .75" and the total sled is 1.5".

The first picture is my prompt to install the 1/8" cutting bit.
Picture 2 is the initial screen to select the cutting depth at the machine (Project).
Picture 3 is an up-arrow to the other option for cut-depth (Board).
After selecting the .75 Project option, I get this Abort/Continue message (picture 4).

Is this a firmware problem? Am I selecting the wrong option? Does this make sense to anyone?

[mtylerfl]

Ken - you may have already noticed this...the message appears to say your board is five (5) inches thick - not 1/2" (0.5) thick

Strange - I don't know why that's happening.

In any case, select "Project" would be correct if your mpc specifies .75" and your board is .75" thick. It should ignore the sled thickness and the normal cut path function should work (as long as you didn't manually assign a bit which might confuse the auto stuff)

[DocWheeler]

Michael,

No I missed that even while editing the picture.
But since I didn't choose that option, I should not have received the Abort/Continue message.

I would really like to feel comfortable with the software/firmware again!

[mtylerfl]

Michael,

No I missed that even while editing the picture.
But since I didn't choose that option, I should not have received the Abort/Continue message.

I would really like to feel comfortable with the software/firmware again!

I would like to take a peek at your mpc to check it out.

[blantz]

Is the abort/continue message coming up because the machine measures the board as 1.5" and the designer board is .75”? So the machine is showing a warning that something might be wrong.

[DocWheeler]

I would like to take a peek at your mpc to check it out.

I'll email it to you as it is part of your Tea box, actually changed so you might not recognize it (see the "Sled" thread I started yesterday).

[mtylerfl]

Got it - thanks.

[mtylerfl]

Ken,

I ran a test on your mpc using 3/4" thick carrier board with a 3/4" thick project board fastened on top of that. That gave me the total thickness of 1.5" just like your own sled jig.

I can confirm that I get exactly the same result as you did. If I choose to use the "Project" thickness of .75", I am presented with a choice of "Abort (1)" or "Continue (2)". (I did NOT select "Continue", as I was concerned that an attempt would be made to try to cut through the total 1.5" thickness.) I also confirmed that menu item #2 in this scenario states that the total thickness is five inches (5"), which is incorrect, of course.

Now - here is the interesting part. If I specify that your project board is only 1/4" thick in the mpc and run the test again, everything works perfectly!

i.e., I am presented with the standard option to use either the "Project" thickness or the "Board" thickness as would be the norm. Then, when I select the "Project (1)" there is no error message, and no menu item statement that the board is too thick to cut through nor the erroneous LCD display that the board is 5" thick.

Apparently for materials that are thinner than the minimum 1/2" requirement of the machine, a sled cut out using the Cut Path tool and auto-tabs will function as expected (as per my article in the Sept. 2008 Tips & Tricks).

It also appears that for materials placed on a sled/carrier board that are more than the minimum 1/2" thickness (such as your mpc with a 3/4" thick board), the Cut Path function is not working correctly - or perhaps, maybe, possibly, it wasn't designed to work that way for stock thicker than 1/2" anyway?? I don't know. I'll certainly ask about it and let you know what I find out. It is my opinion that it should work for any stock thickness up to the 1" limit.

Question for you...

You stated earlier, "I have cut tabs on a board on a sled several times without a problem using pre 1.152 firmware."

I have too, but only on materials thinner than 1/2". When you did it before, were your materials more than 1/2" thick or less than 1/2" thick?

I believe that the Cut Path functionality in 1.152 works the same as in previous versions of the software for materials less than 1/2" thick when placed on a sled/carrier board. However, I never personally tried Cut Paths with auto-tabs on materials thicker than 1/2" on a sled in any version of the software myself, so I can't say whether portions of the functionality has changed or not.

[mtylerfl]

Ken,

I forgot to mention in my previous post that a current solution to the problem is to use a Rail Jig. Just be sure that the rails are equal width so when you flip the board, the design elements will line up properly. Also, you will be prompted "How To Place On Width" - your response should be "Center" (press 1).

[DocWheeler]

Thank you very much Michael,

One, for confirming that I'm not crazy and my machine is OK.
Second for going to all that trouble for me.

Although I thought that I have cutout 3/4" material on a sled, I can not now identify the project that I did that way - just assumed that the firmware would be consistant. You know what they say about assumptions!

Anyway, I pressed Continue and it did indeed cut the project out on the sled although it was a little into the sled (as you can see below).

Edit: I now remember the projects that had 3/4" material on a sled - the layered wood things that I did (at least five of them).
So it use to work correctly!

[mtylerfl]

Hi Ken,

When you selected "Continue" and the cut out was performed going down below the 3/4" stock and into the underlying sled, how much beyond the 3/4" stock did it go?

Was it about 1/4" deep into the sled? If so, I'm guessing that it ignored the Project thickness of .75" and went ahead and did the cut out at the maximum depth of 1", but then again I don't think it would have left any safety tabs if it cut through that far. Were your safety tabs in place after the cut out? Did they look real thin?...or did they appear to have their proper thickness?

[DocWheeler]

Michael,

I just re-checked my material. I drumsanded it to a strong 25/32" and it carved my sled about 1/16+" so I'd say it carved about .85" deep which does not match anything, but my measurements are kinda rough.

As for the tabs, they were thick and large, they show up in the picture.

[liquidguitars]

All my sleds have .75 bottoms cutting .75 to 1.75 thick without any probs. I do not use only rails. I would also be inclined to add wide tails 4" or over on the ends or the sled and load that under the truck when starting.

I do not think it's the sled as you can get this error with just a single board.

I would try a depth calibration using the 1/8" bit once you glue the cut bit together with magnets. )

LG

[DocWheeler]

Brandon,

Thanks, tried that and the magnet flew off somewhere!
Hard to find those carbide attracting magnets - oh well.

[mtylerfl]

All my sleds have .75 bottoms cutting .75 to 1.75 thick without any probs. I do not use rails. I would also be inclined to add wide tails 4" or over on the ends or the sled and load that under the truck when starting.

I do not think it's the sled as you can get this error with just a single board.

I would try a depth calibration using the 1/8" bit once you glue the cut bit together with magnets. )

LG


LG,

Thanks for letting us know that you confirmed the Cut Path and auto-tabs works ok on a sled for you. I didn't know you started using that feature - thought you were still doing manual tab cut setups.

Still curious why Ken and I got the Abort/Continue message and why the machine shows the board is 5" thick when performing Cut Paths on a sled with stock over 1/2" thick, though.

Do you just press "Continue" like Ken did? Does the cutting bit go very far beyond the depth of your board and cut into the sled as in Ken's photo?

I know the depth cal is ok on the machine that I did the test on. I can't find where I wrote it down last week, but it was accurate within a few thousandths.

Another question - how are you achieving cut outs at 1.75" depths with your CW?

[liquidguitars]

Thanks for letting us know that you confirmed the Cut Path and auto-tabs works ok on a sled for you. Still curious why Ken and I got the Abort/Continue message and why the machine shows the board is 5" thick when performing Cut Paths on a sled with stock over 1/2" thick, though.

5" yea thats odd..


Do you just press "Continue" like Ken did? Does the cutting bit go very far beyond the depth of your board and cut into the sled as in Ken's photo?

yes "Continue" but calibrate has removed this error for me. instead of the bit cutting deeper it tends to be a little shallow..


I know the depth cal is ok on the machine that I did the test on. I can't find where I wrote it down last week, but it was accurate within a few thousandths.

Its possible the the unit needs recalibrating from heat and cold or from a loss of setting. calibrate depth take a few secs.. ;)



Another question - how are you achieving cut outs at 1.75" depths with your CW?

I not a big auto tab guy unless i making small inlays, for guitars body's i just flip the stock.

Finding the right depth can be a oddity, here the 3/8 bit needs to cut about 1/16 deeper in the control cavities.

http://liquidguitars.com/assets/images/LesPaulBackR001.jpg

Side A

http://liquidguitars.com/assets/images/LesPaulBack2R001.jpg

Side B

[mtylerfl]

Excellent! Thank you for the detailed account. I figured you were flipping the board for the deep cuts, but didn't know for sure what you were doing.

Yes, my "normal" cut depths (on a sled) are a just a teeny hair shallow too, so I'm confident the depth cal is ok. I did not run Ken's mpc through completion so I don't know if the bit would have gone into the sled or not on his project if I had pressed "Continue" (I chose to Abort the project). Probably would not have, since I know the depth cal is ok on everything else.

I'll talk to LHR some more on this and see if they are aware of the 5" thickness display issue.

[liquidguitars]

Indexing off sleds can be tricky at times so I use the keypad "03" to make some fine adjustments when needed.

In this case i think using the "project" depth is ok as long as the sled's top and the stock are close in thickness " one reason for wide sled tails" and the bit is in correctly each time.


http://forum.carvewright.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26035&d=1252269405

Hmm..

Doc,

I looked at your sled one more time I like the washer idea but i was wondering why your tails are so small?
on the next sled make the tail ends 6" and the side rails 1" thick, use glue no screws so you can run your sled in your drum sander for a consistent thickness. just a idea..

LG

[DocWheeler]

Brandon,

I want the sleds as small as possible (less weight and easier with one hand), and I want the "open" area as big as possible. So, since the "Tails" don't need to be bigger than what I have there, it works best for me.

[mtylerfl]

LG,

The guitar pics you posted - is that Mahogany or something else?

Do you buy it locally or do you have a suggestion for an online source? I have a project that I've been putting off and wanting to get going on it - I'd like to use Mahogany if I can find a good source for it.

[liquidguitars]

Brandon,

I want the sleds as small as possible (less weight and easier with one hand), and I want the "open" area as big as possible. So, since the "Tails" don't need to be bigger than what I have there, it works best for me.

I understand, its tuff to load with two hands..

I wonder if its just the bit slipping out of the QC.. I really snug the bits down tight.




LG

[liquidguitars]

LG,

The guitar pics you posted - is that Mahogany or something else?

Do you buy it locally or do you have a suggestion for an online source? I have a project that I've been putting off and wanting to get going on it - I'd like to use Mahogany if I can find a good source for it.

African mahogany, I hand select from the local hardwood warehouse.
1/4 sawn is the best.


LG

[dcalvin4]

African mahogany, I hand select from the local hardwood warehouse.
1/4 sawn is the best.


LG

Liquidguitars you do wonderful work .
My question to you is how do you finish the mahogany or any other other wood to make the the 2 pieces the same color. I am refering to the posted g.body below . It seems like there 2 dif. colored woods and whenever I finish it seems like the dark gets darker and the liter wood get lighter .I am working on a wood box and at a standstill dont want to ruin the whole thing because of the finish . I probably should have tried planned and matched the color woods beter but didnt. I use minwax clear poly or sometimes use a spar varnish........thanks

[liquidguitars]

Thanks,

When I glue boards together i like to put the sap edge of the wood to the center. when finishing most of the change in color is masked by the lacquer sunburst . :-D


LG