Carving a dish in a square, a circle or an oval.

[rhendrix]

How do you get the dish where it starts at board level on every side of the oval, circle or square and then tapers evenly to the center?

[mtylerfl]

How do you get the dish where it starts at board level on every side of the oval, circle or square and then tapers evenly to the center?

At the moment, it cannot be done within Designer. A pattern has to be made outside of the software.

You can experiment with the height and depth of various Surface settings (Double Dome or Double Down Dome, inverted in this case) but you cannot achieve a recessed surface that starts even with the board and tapers evenly downward.

***EDIT: Read this entire thread - you can make nice dish shapes using Kenm810's technique outlined later in this thread!

[rhendrix]

Thank you. What program would you suggest using to produce this dish?

[JDPratt]

No offense, but the time it takes you to figure it out on another computer software program, import it into designer, and then carve it, is time you could already have it done (IMO) Use the machine to cut the oval with a feather and then dish out the rest with a chisel and finish with sand paper (start with something aggressive like 80 grit and work down to 220.) The same way dished out bowls and plates were done before CW and high speed lathes. If you have a belt sander you don't even need the chisel.

[rhendrix]

That would work fine if the dish was all I wanted but I want to carve another relief figure inside the dished out oval.

[Tom Spaulding]

Thank you. What program would you suggest using to produce this dish?

You just need to use Photoshop (or pretty much any paint program, Gimp is a free version) to make a circle or any other shape with a gradient from white in the center to black at the edge. Then make a pattern from it.

See an example in this post: http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?t=12345

-Tom

[Kenm810]

I believe this might be one of the patterns that was made outside of the Designer software.

I use it often for circle or oval dished shapes
I set the depth at what I want and the Height a .999
It was post free on the forum a couple of years ago :smile:

[rhendrix]

Thank you. That is what I am looking for. I would love to know how they did it.

[Dan-Woodman]

rhendrix
Here is some pictures from the new "puffing feature ". I don't know if or when it's comong out but the pictures are nice.
later Daniel

[Kenm810]

I just figured out how make my own Circle and Oval Dishes completely in CW Designer,
with out any Feathering or Draft. -- lol -- it was right in front of my face all the time :razz:

Ps. Thanks Guys for making me think about how to do for a while

[rhendrix]

Dan, is the puffing feature in Designer? I don't think I have ever seen that feature.

Thank you,

[rhendrix]

Ken, if you figured it out and it is that simple would you mind sharing what you figured out.

[mtylerfl]

I just figured out how make my own Circle and Oval Dishes completely in CW Designer,
with out any Feathering or Draft. -- lol -- it was right in front of my face all the time :razz:

Ps. Thanks Guys for making me think about how to do for a while

Hello Ken - I'll bite. How did you create the dished circle and oval completely in Designer? If that's really the case, you'll get a Gold Star! No one at LHR knows how to do that within Designer, that I know of!

[mtylerfl]

Dan, is the puffing feature in Designer? I don't think I have ever seen that feature.

Thank you,

No, that feature is not in the normal public release of Designer - it's something being experimented with for a future version.

[Kenm810]

Just like Michael T said,

Quote --You can experiment with the height and depth of various Surface settings (Double Dome or Double Down Dome, inverted in this case)

Use the Circle or Oval tool to make a Carve Region
Use Select Surface Double - Down and Invert it
Select you depth at what you want and set the height at .999
Set the Merge Style to additive (+) and then Group the carving
Last Select the Group and save it as a New Pattern with nice smooth tapered sides :wink:

[maxcarvewright]

choose drawing-
-circle-
-shrink circle to minimum size-
-choose bit profile-
-set depth to 0.125-

I think this will work. :roll:

[bjbethke]

Thank you. What program would you suggest using to produce this dish?
You need a grayscale image of a circle to make a pattern. I used Gradient Designer, It is a program that was posted lots of times on this forum.

Here is a image,

[Kenm810]

Michae,

The same thing works on Squares and Rectangles Too
Probably always did -- just didn't notice it or need it before. :razz:

[rhendrix]

Where can I get Gradient Designer?

[mtylerfl]

Just like Michael T said,

Quote --You can experiment with the height and depth of various Surface settings (Double Dome or Double Down Dome, inverted in this case)

Use the Circle or Oval tool to make a Carve Region
Use Select Surface Double - Down and Invert it
Select you depth at what you want and set the height at .999
Set the Merge Style to additive (+) and then Group the carving
Last Select the Group and save it as a New Pattern with nice smooth tapered sides :wink:

Ken,

I must be super dense today - followed your instructions above and do not get the same result. Still have uneven tapered sides and a sharp lip around the perimeter. I must be missing a step. (when you say "Save As New Pattern" - you mean use the "Make Pattern" feature - correct?)

[Kenm810]

That's it -- It took me a few tries to get right too

[bjbethke]

Where can I get Gradient Designer?
http://www.wolfiesden.com/downloads/images/gradient.asp

IT was first posted here;
http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?t=5726&highlight=Gradient+Designer

By TIMCOSBY

[Dan-Woodman]

Just put "select puffing" on your wish list . works great.
later Daniel

[PCW]

That's it -- It took me a few tries to get right too


Ken,

I came close to your design in your picture but still had a slight drop on edge. What is the depth and height sitting that you used? Your not messing with us now are you?:D

[Kenm810]

Nope, Honest it works,
try the ptn's I posted
their right of my Pc
using Ver 1.134 Designer

Here's the mpc with the measurements

[rhendrix]

Gradient designe will not run on Vista. Maybe someone will come up with a new version but then the 64 bit Windows 7 is coming out in October and I hope Carvewright is ready with a new version that will operate with this one. I am running the latest version of Designer now on Vista 64 bit and it works great.

Thanks anyways for help

Ron H

[mtylerfl]

Nope, Honest it works,
try the ptn's I posted
their right of my Pc
using Ver 1.134 Designer

Here's the mpc with the measurements

I tried it on version 1.132 and on version 1.152 - still do not get the result you can. (i.e., no smooth taper from board surface)

The only version I never installed was 1.134. Maybe that's why I can't get the same result??...or, I'm just missing something.

Could you try it on 1.152 and see if you get the same result?

[rfoster]

I tried it with 1.134 and it worked great.

Richard

[mtylerfl]

I tried it with 1.134 and it worked great.

Richard

Ok - so how about on 1.152 - does it work the same? ...or do I have to stop taking my "stupid" pills;)

[PCW]

Ok - so how about on 1.152 - does it work the same? ...or do I have to stop taking my "stupid" pills;)

Michael

I glad it is not just me. I have been playing with this for well I don't want to say. I have heard that it works in Ver 1.151 but don't try it.:mrgreen:

Ver 1.52

[HighTechOkie]

Ok - so how about on 1.152 - does it work the same? ...or do I have to stop taking my "stupid" pills;)

Maybe its time to order Ginkgo in bulk :D.

I tried it with 1.152 and it works with depths less than 0.57" Any deeper and you get the lip. Also, once you make it into a pattern and place it back on the board, you have to increase the height again for full depth without the lip.

Rob

[Kenm810]

The Circle and square are working and can be made in Ver1.152
but so far not the Oval :sad:

I'm going to see if the Oval I made in Ver 1.134 can be load int 1.152 at least as a Designer ptn Pattern

[Kenm810]

The mpc file with the Circle and Oval open in Ver 1.152 fine
But the ptn file of the Oval It's self is changed by Ver 1.152 to a recessed oval with a 1/4" Feathered edge! :???:
--- Have to copy and paste it for now --- more to think about
maybe save it for Ver 1.153 ---and the Oval ptn file might work again,

[TerryT]

Wow,
Thanks Ken, it does work! I have version 1.52 and vista.

[PCW]

Ken,

Finally got it. The mpc file helped understand what I was doing wrong. When I made the circle was was assigning a carved region to it.

You had me going for a while. You earned the gold star. :D

[liquidguitars]

I think the key is the use of "additive merge". with "invert" and "subtraction" then separating the merges with groups from the primary pattern.

Needed for guitar body's and pockets. Just make sure the you do not add two much negative depth as it will cut through the sleds if you not checking the pattern first. I been hoping LHR would not remove this important tool as it not use much but needed for complex designs.



Here is look at invert merging for humbuckers and control pots..


http://liquidguitars.com/assets/images/BodyDesign.jpg

LG

[PCW]

The mpc file with the Circle and Oval open in Ver 1.152 fine
But the ptn file of the Oval It's self is changed by Ver 1.152 to a recessed oval with a 1/4" Feathered edge! :???:
--- Have to copy and paste it for now --- more to think about
maybe save it for Ver 1.153 ---and the Oval ptn file might work again,

I saw the 1/4 feather as well as normal merged in the pattern and that's what had me. Ha Ha

[Kenm810]

Think I better leave this technical stuff
to the guys that Know what their doin,
And go back to Making my $2.00 Signs :razz:

[liquidguitars]

Ken,
I use it all the time but on rasters , so i am learning two.. :mrgreen:

Lg

[PCW]

Think I better leave this technical stuff
to the guys that Know what their doin,
And go back to Making my $2.00 Signs :razz:

Ken,

Don't even think about it. That was good learning experience.:mrgreen:

[Jvicaretti]

LG, your work is really impressive!

[Woodhacker]

Brother Ken...it works!!! Even with squares!!! I made up some shapes and used your technique on them and they ALL give you a good smoothly tapered pattern. Ya done good.

BTW... I use Vista and am running v1.152

Richard

[mtylerfl]

Brother Ken...it works!!! Even with squares!!! I made up some shapes and used your technique on them and they ALL give you a good smoothly tapered pattern. Ya done good.

BTW... I use Vista and am running v1.152

Richard

Well, I am completely stumped. I finally got it to work on a circle. I downloaded Ken's mpc and then started a new project (while Ken's mpc was still open). When I made my own circle and followed the steps all over again, lo and behold it worked! Once, when I moved the circle, it reverted back to having the recessed "lip". I moved it back to where it had been, and it changed to have the smooth transition like Ken's. I moved it again, and it kept the smoothness!

I started a new project, drew the circle, did the steps and it worked again. This time moving it made no difference. It "behaved" itself.

Another new project - I then drew an oval shape, followed the same steps and it does NOT work.

Another new project - I then drew a rectangle shape, followed the same steps and it does NOT work. (Also, drew a square - no workee!)

The version I am using is 1.152 Build 7739. Is this the same Build you guys are using?

EDIT: Look at the last pic - I started a new project, drew 3 circles and then deleted one. I did the steps on the two circles (which were side-by-side) and they both make a smooth transition from the surface. Then I grouped one of the remaining circles in preparation for saving it as a pattern. I moved the circle to a location under the other circle to see what would happen - - - the top circle reverted with the "lip"! I can move the bottom circle back to the left of the top circle and they both have the smooth transition again.

Wow - this is very puzzling behavior!

[liquidguitars]

Michael,

try tuning the "scale to fit board" option off then try it. you should not need to make sub groups unless your using a lot of patterns and need to separate depth control.

"scale to fit board" must act like a local scaling as opposed to world scaling if that make sense.

[mtylerfl]

Hi LG,

I just made the group so I could make one of the circles a pattern. I did go back to the Surface selection and turned off the Scale To Fit Board option for both circles. Didn't seem to make any difference.

One thing I notice - if I make each circle a "group" and move either circle under one or the other, they both "behave".

If only one of the circles is a "group" and I move one directly under the other, one of the circles will suddenly have the "lip".

I'll attach the mpc with two circles - one of them "grouped". Move either one of the circles to a location below the other. The "grouped" one will revert to the "lip". Move it back so the circles are side-by-side - they both have a smooth transition again. I'll be switched if I can figure out why. :confused::confused:

[liquidguitars]

I get that two sometimes when adding more than one additive or subtractive object like a humbucker to a master object like a guitar body.

I use groups and sub groups to fix it. it been like that since i first used the software by design so its not a error, but needs a little trail and error to get it right. however you should not need it for just one additive merge but it will not hurt anything. oh and you should not need to make a pattern for it to work right.

LG

[TIMCOSBY]

Where can I get Gradient Designer?

designer must have let his site go defunkt cause it doesnt work so i uploaded a zip file with the program in it. you'll have to search under my post to find it.

[TIMCOSBY]

http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?t=11943
should work

[Kenm810]

I didn't mean to open "Pandora's box" -- the steps for recessing the shapes work fine in Ver 1.134, which I set use most of the time.
I really didn't expect it throw Ver 1.152 into such a tizzy, seems like it's got an unpredictable mind of its own and decides
when or if it wants to follow the steps -- or not. It's all way beyond me, it's fun to experiment a little to see what Designer really can do.
Sorry if I had you folks burning up any gray matter, maybe the answer comes down to a couple snifters of Old #7 and to call the LHR Techs in the morning. http://forum.carvewright.com/images/icons/icon11.gif

[mtylerfl]

I didn't mean to open "Pandora's box" -- the steps for recessing the shapes work fine in Ver 1.134, which I set use most of the time.
I really didn't expect it throw Ver 1.152 into such a tizzy, seems like it's got an unpredictable mind of its own and decides
when or if it wants to follow the steps -- or not. It's all way beyond me, it's fun to experiment a little to see what Designer really can do.
Sorry if I had you folks burning up any gray matter, maybe the answer comes down to a couple snifters of Old #7 and to call the LHR Techs in the morning. http://forum.carvewright.com/images/icons/icon11.gif

Hi Ken,

You did indeed win the Gold Star!! Now, if we can figure out why 1.152 isn't quite behaving the same way as 1.134 (the only version I never installed or used myself), that will be a real benefit to users.

Thank you so much for bringing this to all our attention. It is a wonderful "Tips & Tricks" in itself! If your technique will work consistently, we will no longer have to make a pattern outside of Designer to get our "dishes"! I'll let LHR know about this thread, and see if they have some input.

[AskBud]

Hi Ken,

You did indeed win the Gold Star!! Now, if we can figure out why 1.152 isn't quite behaving the same way as 1.134 (the only version I never installed or used myself), that will be a real benefit to users.

Thank you so much for bringing this to all our attention. It is a wonderful "Tips & Tricks" in itself! If your technique will work consistently, we will no longer have to make a pattern outside of Designer to get our "dishes"! I'll let LHR know about this thread, and see if they have some input.
It's also true that if you place one of the circles below the other and then move the upper one, the lip goes away as well.

As long as neither circle is within the vertical plane of the other, the lip is non existant.
AskBud

[liquidguitars]

http://forum.carvewright.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=25578&d=1250653274

I not really seeing any issues. Designer has been working this way since 1.126 your image show the excat way it was designed.

Without groups you can not use the multiple additive or subtractive functions with more than one object in complex designs. I am surprised that you never used this option before today. :mrgreen:


LG

[mtylerfl]

I was just playing around some more with Ken's technique. Here's what I discovered works on my 1.152 version...


To make circle dishes...
1) Draw a circle
2) Select the Double Dome surface
3) Invert it and type in your desired Depth and type a height of 999
4) Make the circle a "Merge Additive"


To make rectangle or square dishes...
1) Draw a rectangle (or square)
2) Select the Double Down Dome surface
3) Invert it and type in your desired Depth and type a height of 999
4) Doesn't seem to make any difference if you leave the Merge at "Normal" or "Additive"


To make oval dishes...
Unfortunately, for some reason the technique doesn't seem to work on my system running 1.152. (My ovals do not have a smooth transitioning dish shape.)

[mtylerfl]

It's also true that if you place one of the circles below the other and then move the upper one, the lip goes away as well.

As long as neither circle is within the vertical plane of the other, the lip is non existant.
AskBud

True, but why?

[liquidguitars]

4) Doesn't seem to make any difference if you leave the Merge at "Normal" or "Additive"

This is because you are only using one merging object, make a complex design and it will.

anyway nice tip Ken.

LG

[mtylerfl]

http://forum.carvewright.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=25578&d=1250653274

I not really seeing any issues. Designer has been working this way since 1.126 your image show the excat way it was designed.

Without groups you can not use the multiple additive or subtractive functions with more than one object in complex designs. I am surprised that you never used this option before today. :mrgreen:


LG

Hi LG,

I have used multiple additive and subtractive functions, but I think I may be having a brain freeze. Hope it thaws out today!;)

[mtylerfl]

This is because you are only using one merging object, make a complex design and it will.

anyway nice tip Ken.

LG

Thanks LG - that is true!

[liquidguitars]

I ran into this with a guitar pattern after adding additive humbuckes pockets my body droped about .125" :confused: adjusting the groups and sub groups is the fix.

I still think "scale to fit object" is having a effect independently of the grouping. also regarding merged rasters a BMP will have a different effect than a PNG so it get even more indepth.



LG

[rhendrix]

Thanks Tim. I got it now.

[rhendrix]

[QUOTE=mtylerfl;100459]I was just playing around some more with Ken's technique. Here's what I discovered works on my 1.152 version...


To make circle dishes...
1) Draw a circle
2) Select the Double Dome surface
3) Invert it and type in your desired Depth and type a height of 999
4) Make the circle a "Merge Additive"


To make rectangle or square dishes...
1) Draw a rectangle (or square)
2) Select the Double Down Dome surface
3) Invert it and type in your desired Depth and type a height of 999
4) Doesn't seem to make any difference if you leave the Merge at "Normal" or "Additive"


It didn't work for me. I still get lips. I am running Vista 64 bit and the latest version of Designer. I don't know why it works for you guys and not me. I am following your steps precisely.

[Kenm810]

Hey Guys,

It's been a Long time, with very few Gold Stars along the way :cool:

[liquidguitars]

ken,
you have always had a gold star.. your layout and sled work is the best.

rhendrix,

keep it simple

start with a new board and try turning off the "scale to fit board" when making the dome also use "Additive merge" no need to group if have only one object.

Additive merge is looking at the object it is being overlayed on. like photoshop.

LG

[PCW]

Hey Guys,

It's been a Long time, with very few Gold Stars along the way :cool:


Ken,

We need to do more of these it is a good learning tool.

[liquidguitars]

in real time! a learning tool for everyone.

LG

[rhendrix]

You guys have really shed some light on this for me. I had no idea when I asked this question that it would spark such a thread. Great job to all of you and in my opinion you all get gold stars. Now if I only could make one on my system, I would send each of you one.

Thanks for all the help.
Ron H

[Woodhacker]

Hey, LG. I don't seem to have an "adaptive" style merge in v1.152. I have Normal, Additive, Subtractive, and Fixed. Am I missing one???

Richard

[liquidguitars]

Hey, LG. I don't seem to have an "adaptive" style merge in v1.152. I have Normal, Additive, Subtractive, and Fixed. Am I missing one???

Richard

Sorry, spell checker messup "Additive" is what i mean. :roll:





LG

[Kenm810]

More simple carving projects with Dished and Domed elements all done in Designer.

[rhendrix]

Well I must not be holding my mouth right because all mine still have lips and I can't figure out how to use that Gradient Design program Tim gave me either. It doesn't do anything but draw lines and I can't figure out what to do with them.

Back to just using the ones you guys have produced and copying and pasting.:confused:

[PCW]

Hi

Maybe post the mpc file and someone can take a look at where you are and if anything needs to be changed. If you do post the file let us know what version of software you are working on.

I am still starring at Ken's newest post. :mrgreen:

[chebytrk]

More simple carving projects with Dished and Domed elements all done in Designer.

Ken.......... why you have to say " More simple carving projects? Where's the simple? Maybe we could talk you in to doing a "tips and tricks" on these "simple" carving projects? :mrgreen:

[rhendrix]

Hi

Maybe post the mpc file and someone can take a look at where you are and if anything needs to be changed. If you do post the file let us know what version of software you are working on.

I am still starring at Ken's newest post. :mrgreen:

Per your request, here is the messed up dish that didn't dish.

[liquidguitars]

no need to use groups unless you have more than one object merge.

it seems to work but i am turning the" scale to fit object button" to off.



version 1.152

LG

[rhendrix]

Okay, I tried it again without the group and I turned off the scale to fit and it still didn't work.

Version 1.152

[RayTrek]

Finally had a chance to read threw this, Wow nice exercise. Thanks
I also wound up with the same results as Michael I am using 1.152
Ken, I also would like to confirm head of class for this one Cool!

Ron I looked at your file and I see you have the Double Down Dome selected Try the Double Dome and you should be good to go.
Ray

[Kenm810]

Don't want to even think of a Tips and Tricks until LHR is sure it's
compatible with all the Designer Versions available,
plus there are much better qualified folks out there to do that, then me.

Those two were done with Ver 1.134
I'll try a couple tomorrow with Ver 1.152

I also made the Bowl of Bubbles or a Tray of Dents into a ptn file for you to play with too

[rhendrix]

Finally had a chance to read threw this, Wow nice exercise. Thanks
I also wound up with the same results as Michael I am using 1.152
Ken, I also would like to confirm head of class for this one Cool!

Ron I looked at your file and I see you have the Double Down Dome selected Try the Double Dome and you should be good to go.
Ray

Thank you, thank you, thank you. That worked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[rcdages]

I am still using Version 1.132 and all seems to be going well.

Would it be a good thing to move up to 1.152?

I believe with the version 1.150 thru 1.152 one can then obtain STL for an added cost, am I correct in this thinking?

Some seem to be having problems with 1.150___1.152 Yes - No.

Robert
rcdages

[rhendrix]

I am still using Version 1.132 and all seems to be going well.

Would it be a good thing to move up to 1.152?

I believe with the version 1.150 thru 1.152 one can then obtain STL for an added cost, am I correct in this thinking?

Some seem to be having problems with 1.150___1.152 Yes - No.

Robert
rcdages

I haven't had any trouble with the latest version. Using Vista 64 bit.

[PCW]

Ken,

I have been working on duplicating your latest project (http://forum.carvewright.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=25590&d=1250715850)from the time you posted the picture and I am about 3/4 there. My head is starting to hurt but I think that is a good sign.:smile:

I'm going to have to put it to rest for the night because I'm stuck and can't think straight.

This is a very challenging project for me to complete but I have learned alot from it. Hopefully some of us can learn a small portion of the skills that you have acquired over the years. Once again thanks for taking the time to post your project.

Edit:
I just noticed that the center oval pattern was created on 1.134. I been working on it with 1.152. May not be doable with 1.152 but time will tell. Have notice the strange behavior with the software that was mentioned before. Just when you figure out the next move the software changes everything around leaving you holding a empty bag. It will drive you crazy.

[Kenm810]

I'll fire up my other Pc tomorrow that has Ver 1.152 on it and see what I get,
I think it might have something to do with Smoke and Mirrors
involved in how it changes some parts of the project while your working on another :???:

[rhendrix]

I did notice that it would not work on ovals. I finally got it to work on circles but never could get the oval to work. If I take the oval and reshape it into a circle then it works but when stretched out as an oval there is a flat spot on both ends of the oval.

[rhendrix]

Don't want to even think of a Tips and Tricks until LHR is sure it's
compatible with all the Designer Versions available,
plus there are much better qualified folks out there to do that, then me.

Those two were done with Ver 1.134
I'll try a couple tomorrow with Ver 1.152

I also made the Bowl of Bubbles or a Tray of Dents into a ptn file for you to play with too

Ken, this would be a great way to create a cluster of grapes.

[bjbethke]

I did notice that it would not work on ovals. I finally got it to work on circles but never could get the oval to work. If I take the oval and reshape it into a circle then it works but when stretched out as an oval there is a flat spot on both ends of the oval.
The whole thing you are trying to put a square peg in a round whole, that pattern is a square

stick with a dot: It makes a great oval

[mtylerfl]

I cannot get 1.152 to work with ovals either. I let LHR know about it...

However - there is a work around of sorts. Make a circle dish as per Ken's instructions (be sure to use Double Dome not Double Down Dome for circle dishes), group it, then make it a pattern.

Now you can place the pattern onto a board (you have to invert it again after placing on the board), then just stretch the circle into an oval using the yellow handles. Change size by using the red handles. One caveat - you will notice that at certain sizes you'll have the sharp "lip" reappear - just play with the size and stretching.

[rhendrix]

The whole thing you are trying to put a square peg in a round whole, that pattern is a square

stick with a dot: It makes a great oval



What did you say? I think that one just took a skid right across the top of my bald head.:confused:

[Kenm810]

Had Company over this Morning, so I didn't have a chance to post it.
Here's the New Imprvoed Ver 1.152 Dish Pattern that can used as a Round or Oval project element.
Just Like Micheal T says you can strech the Circle to any size Oval you want.
I haven't Had any problems with streching pattern to any Size I want, so far. :grin:

Ps. Try it --- I like it!

[RMarkey]

import your stl (I used a seashell) and carve it doublesided.

[rhendrix]

import your stl (I used a seashell) and carve it doublesided.

That is a nice piece. How bout sharing the mpc on here?

[Kenm810]

Another one from today to look at.

http://forum.carvewright.com/images/attach/ptn.gifNew Ver 1.152 dish pattern.ptn (http://forum.carvewright.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=25606&d=1250781223)

[rhendrix]

That looks great!!! You really put some time in on that one. :-D

[Kenm810]

Here's another recesses oval done in Ver 1.152 with a Nice pattern posted yesterday by CraigR

[Kenm810]

Here's a little one for you folks with Thinking Caps to figure out. :wink:

[dvel56]

Candy dish Deco

Here is a quick fixed up simple candy dish

[Kenm810]

Good One! :wink:http://forum.carvewright.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

[Icutone2]

Nice dish! now all it needs is a domed lid to keep the critters out.
Just a thought, Great job!
Lee

[Woodhacker]

Pretty cool dish!! I see how the back works, but not the front. Any clues??

OK....did a little more snooping on the .mpc and figured it out. Even duplicated it to make sure I understood how it was made. Most excellent use of the Designer software. And a good imagination to come up with the concept in the first place. Nice work ya'll.

Richard

[Kenm810]

And there's the Lid. :wink:

[dvel56]

Ken
That lid will not work?
If you notice the ring follows the contour of the dishout the lid is flat the way it looks
is that correct?

[Kenm810]

Hmmm,
Should fit fine with the right measurements

[dbfletcher]

Can I ask how you are rendering thoses? Is that really from within designer??

[DocWheeler]

Ken,

That is a cool project, but that amount of candy would not last long enough:)

[Kenm810]

Barb and I are not big Candy eaters,
So unless the Grandkids are around
a hand full or two of M&M
last a week around Here.

And the Candy Dish and Lid were done with CW Designer Ver. 1.152
The Photos with http://www.mirekw.com/winfreeware/mwsnap.html
and http://www.getpaint.net/index.html --- Both are Free Down Loads

[Woodhacker]

After disassembling the .mpc, I can assure you it was done entirely within Designer. Just blows me away.

Richard

[dbfletcher]

I was really refering to the "rendered" pics that he posted. I didnt know how he was including the dish and lid in on one image from within designer. And it looks like it might have been done from another package. Perhaps it was just a simple copy paste of two seperate designer images.

Doug Fletcher

[Kenm810]

Your Both right,

The Dish and lid where done in Designer, the Photo representations
were Sceen Shots done with MWSnap and combined with Paint.Net
and Windows Publisher to see them in the same Photo.
They are two separate .mpc files.

[Wilbur]

I have carved the dish but can't figgure out how to cut the legs out. Help.

Wilbur

[Icutone2]

You guys are fast to solve the idea, now I will need to carve one and try it out.
Thanks for all the answers on a quick thought.
Lee

[dvel56]

Wilbur

I designed it as a two sided carve so all you should have needed to do is flip the board. only thing is to figure out how to use the carrier board or sled to hold it. I figured out how to design the thing now I will need help on how to carve it. by reading this thread and the other one I posted regarding placing a hole on a pattern I think this challenge Ken introduced should be turned into a monthly tutorial project. or it should be a least written up somehow so we don't need to read for an hour on how to create or use the dishout procedure

Dvel56

[mtylerfl]

Wilbur

I designed it as a two sided carve so all you should have needed to do is flip the board. only thing is to figure out how to use the carrier board or sled to hold it. I figured out how to design the thing now I will need help on how to carve it. by reading this thread and the other one I posted regarding placing a hole on a pattern I think this challenge Ken introduced should be turned into a monthly tutorial project. or it should be a least written up somehow so we don't need to read for an hour on how to create or use the dishout procedure

Dvel56

Good idea! I'm always looking for volunteers to contribute to the Tips & Tricks. Already wrote up the Sept 2009 issue. October 2009 is still open! Perhaps we could get Ken to do a nice write up? (Ken, if you wish, PM me and I'll tell you the format I will need for the text and graphics.);)

[Wilbur]

It is a two sided carve and I fliped it over and carved the top. Did not use a carrier board.
Every thing worked fine. The legs carved fine but there was a strip betwen the legs that was left.
This was not a problem to remove using my table saw.
the carve is done and looks fine. I just wondered how it was done.

Wilbur

[deancooper]

I was looking through this thread for ideas on carving dishes and plates and saw Ken worrying about Pandora's box.

Here it is. Make it and open it at your peril. I used Canary wood on mine.

[Kenm810]

Quote: Wilbur. "The carve is done and looks fine. I just wondered how it was done."
I'll be sure to let you Know as soon as I figure it out! :wink:

Barb Nixed the Candy Dish Idea,
Now she want to give them away as presents for Christmas Holiday Scent Dishes,
holding sprigs of pine and ScentChips.
http://www.scentchipsusa.com/cart/product.aspx?cols=3&category=Scentchips&sub_category=Christmas+and+Spice

I'm easy, ----- So I said ----- :roll: Yes Dear

Ps. -- The Grandkids'll probably eat em anyway ----

[deancooper]

I got so excited being able to add something to the forum
that I forgot a couple of things.

First, you need to have a font, Incised901Greek BT, installed on your computer. It is a free font. You can find it with a Google search.

Secondly, that little carving that I stuck in the second layer of the box is the Hindu god Ganesha.

Thirdly, you'll probably want to delete my name and business name from the back of the board.

Fourthly, you'll need the basic carving bit, a 90deg bit, the 1/8 inch cutting bit, and a 1/2 straight bit.

[Kenm810]

Thank's Dean, for Sharing your project,

Always wondered what was in Pandora's Box,
Guess It's anything we might want to put in it. :wink:

[dvel56]

It is a two sided carve and I fliped it over and carved the top. Did not use a carrier board.
Every thing worked fine. The legs carved fine but there was a strip betwen the legs that was left.
This was not a problem to remove using my table saw.
the carve is done and looks fine. I just wondered how it was done.

Wilbur

Wilbur
What size board did you use to start with? And what kind?
I have a piece of Walnut to use. I don't want to waste it so thats why I thought you would need a carrier board Also Did you carve the Lid?

Can you post a picture of it instead of a rendering?

Thanks
Dvel56

[Wilbur]

I used a block of cedar 8" wide and 8" long but added 7" to the long end to keep it under the rollers 1.5" thick but you could use the sled and the board would be 8" x 8" x 1.5" thick.

The bottom with the legs is carver first and it carves the convex bottom with the legs but it does not carve between the legs.

I used my table saw and lowered the blade to the point that I could nibble a little at a time until I had the sides cut out.

I marked where to cut and did not stray from the marks. I used a hand sanding wheel to finish the curves of the legs.

There may be a better way but that was all I could think of at the time and it worked out good. It does not take long to do but you do have to be careful to not hit the bottom.

Wilbur

[Icutone2]

Wow! That turned out really cool! Thanks for showing it.
Lee

[Kenm810]

Hey Wilbur,

Nice Job - Looks really good
Thanks for sharing a photo of the actual carving. http://forum.carvewright.com/images/icons/icon14.gif


Soon as I get my machine up and running,
I want to carve a few of different styles and sizes for Barb.
The only difference, I plan to carve mine on a Sled
and make my project board an inch longer and wider,
Then use my Table or Cutoff Saw to trim a ½” of each side
to end up like the photo.

[Wilbur]

That should be nice. I am going to have to make a sled. I had made one a while back but never got the hang of using it. I can see how it would be a helpful item to have.

Thanks for all your info.

Wilbur

[Kenm810]

Oh well, thought I'd add another one to the mix. :wink:

A 14" x 24" Oval assorted Nut or Mint Dish for the Holiday Buffet Table.

[dbfletcher]

So who is going to be first with coming up with faux material (candies, nuts, etc) for all these cool little dishes??

Doug Fletcher

[Woodhacker]

Okay Ken...disassembled the .mpc and see how it is done. Pretty neat carve I would think. With a small change, it could also be a bread platter. I don't have Centerline yet so just left the lettering raised a little bit. Whatcha think??

Richard

[mtylerfl]

Oh well, thought I'd add another one to the mix. :wink:

A 14" x 24" Oval assorted Nut or Mint Dish for the Holiday Buffet Table.

Hey Ken,

Great work again! Have you thought about doing a write-up/project for a Tips & Tricks issue? I know folks would really enjoy that if you did! (no pressure;))

[Kenm810]

Richard,

I like it, Nice Idea! :wink:


How about making it into a Cheese Serving Platter
with its own cutting board section, and a slot and recess
for a rare earth magnet to hold the Cheese knife in place,
also a few separate compartments for an assortment of Crackers.

[Kenm810]

Just screwing with your minds now --- :wink:
How about a Free Form Mint Dish shaped like a Mint Leaf.

All Layed-Out and Drawn in CW Designer!

[DocWheeler]

Pretty classy Ken!

[dvel56]

So now that we somewhat understand how to do a dishout the next thing I'm trying to fiqure out is how do we make a dished out trench? Meaning

1) 12 Dia outside ring x 2 wide

2) 2.5wide x .625 dp dishout trench

3) leaving the balance left as a island

This probably can not be done but I think I did see on this post that the Dishout also could not be done?

Help
Dvel56

[dvel56]

Here is a jpg of what I'm trying to do






So now that we somewhat understand how to do a dishout the next thing I'm trying to fiqure out is how do we make a dished out trench? Meaning

1) 12 Dia outside ring x 2 wide

2) 2.5wide x .625 dp dishout trench

3) leaving the balance left as a island

This probably can not be done but I think I did see on this post that the Dishout also could not be done?

Help
Dvel56

[Woodhacker]

I think that will be a pretty good trick. I tried everything I know (which isn't all that much!!) and could not figure out a way to do it. In order to get the depth you want, I could not get the dished out part deep enough due to the constraints of the bit length. Most I could get was about 1/2" deep. Also, you show the trench as going down and then back up to the center "island". I didn't find a way to do that. Wish ya luck. One of the more experienced people may be able to figure it out for you.

Richard

[Woodhacker]

You sure do know how work Designer, Ken. How long have you been using the CW? I can take your designs apart and see how it was done, but so far, have not figured out to actually START a project like that. I suppose ya just get an idea and start fiddling with it. Unfortunately, my expertise with the software has not reached that point yet. Maybe in a few years...lol. Great job.

Richard

[TIMCOSBY]

Here is a jpg of what I'm trying to do

may not be exact but you can get it close

[TIMCOSBY]

did fill in hole with paint bucket in pattern editor.26623

26624

26625

[Kenm810]

Dvel56,

Saw your post and drawing,
I haven't run across a way to do it with the smooth tapped wall in Cw Designer yet, but I am looking.:wink:

It can be done with the Draft menu, but not the same effect (TIMCOSBY)
got with a Graphics Program. :???:

[roughcut]

I scanned this plate awhile back you can put 1 as the dish pattern then another in the center and invert it for the raised center

[locovalley]

Oh well, thought I'd add another one to the mix. :wink:

A 14" x 24" Oval assorted Nut or Mint Dish for the Holiday Buffet Table.

If someone could clue me in... I've been racking my brain to figure out how Ken was able to design the foot for this piece (post #121 in this thread). I can figure out the basic shape but can't get the the foot. I know I have these senior moments from time to time but thise looks like it should be fairly straight forward. I could just download the project but would really like to have this skill in my repertoire. If someone can help I'd be grateful.

Thanks,
Joseph

[AskBud]

If someone could clue me in... I've been racking my brain to figure out how Ken was able to design the foot for this piece (post #121 in this thread). I can figure out the basic shape but can't get the the foot. I know I have these senior moments from time to time but thise looks like it should be fairly straight forward. I could just download the project but would really like to have this skill in my repertoire. If someone can help I'd be grateful.

Thanks,
Joseph

Joseph,
Bring up the MPC and look at the back (Rear Icon).
Click on that image, and you will see his design choices.
AskBud

[locovalley]

Thanks for the post Bud. I tried doing just that but I'm still missing something. When I try drawing the oval inside the carve region nothing happens. That's the part that has me clueless.

Joseph

[Kenm810]

Hi Joseph,

Outline the leaf with Spline Vector tool and finish with a
Half Inch Round Over Bit in 2 .250 passes :wink:

[locovalley]

Thanks for the reply Ken. The project I wanted to duplicate was the 24" x 14" nut dish you posted a while back. It's an oval dish with an oval foot on the bottom. The foot is what I can't draw for whatever reason.

Thanks, Joseph

[locovalley]

This is the project I'm trying to recreate.

[Kenm810]

Joseph, --- ah now we're same page

The Base is made up of two oval carve regions,
The first or outer ovals depth is set at .000 normal
The second or inner oval is set at .250 height 500 subtractive pluse Draft set at Large

[dbfletcher]

gotta love spammers... i hope the mods nix this id soon.

Doug Fletcher

[Digitalwoodshop]

Yes, ME TOO.... Looked at the Gold Website then came back and looked at all the posts.... All the same BS.....

SPAM BOT

AL

[wizer]

Hi Guys

sorry to drag up such an old thread but this is one of the things I really want to do with my CW. I'm more into making shapes and profiles than actual carvings.

I have read through this thread twice and some things are just not going in. I think I have managed to replicate the circle dish technique. But the oval one is alluding me. Like locovalley, I would also like to re-create the oval double sided dish that Ken posted. Although it's not working for me. Could it be my software version? I'm only on the trial version at the moment, version 1.162. My CW is shipping this weekend.

So I go into Designer, start with a board 12 x 6.5 x 2.5. I then draw an oval 11 x 5, center it on both, click carve region and set it's depth to 0.00. I then create another oval by first de-selecting the first oval, making an oval 9 x 3.5, centering it on both. But then I get no option to set height or depth, they are greyed out.

So I have hit a brick wall with this. Can someone tell me where I am going wrong please?

I did look through tips and tricks, as it was mentioned earlier in this thread, but I could not find one specifically on this subject. If I have missed it, please direct me there.

Thanks

[Router-Jim]

Someone will come along and give you the answer on how to set it up.

In the meantime I'll share a dish pattern with you. You should be able to extract the pattern from it.

Jim

[Kenm810]

Hi wizer,

Just saw your post, is this what your trying to do?

[wizer]

Hi Ken

Yes I want to learn how that's done. I can't get my head around the concept at the moment. You are very kind to post the MPC, but I'd really like to understand how to do it from scratch here. Otherwise I'll be asking others to design everything for me ;)

Do you think you could do a step by step for morons ? :D I'm a bit slow. The 'Idiots Guide' books where too technical for me ;)

Thanks

[Kenm810]

Sure no problem, --- Give me a few minute to make a couple of screen shots to help explain how I do it. :wink:

[wizer]

Thanks very much, Take your time. ;)

[Kenm810]

Sorry it took so long, the Grand kids came over and I had to make Lunch for everyone,
Feels like the old corner Diner-Restaurant around here some days. :wink:


Ok now, let’s give this a try,
First draw a Circle on the Designer screen with the Circle Tool, then use the Carve Region tool
and Select Surface to set the depth to what you want also the height to 999, plus set it to Merge Additive +.
Now high light what you have and make a group of it. Click on the Group, you’ll see the make pattern icon light-up,
click on the icon to name and save your New Circular Recessed Dish Pattern.
Next open your New Circular Dish Pattern on your Designer screen and Stretch it to the shape and size Oval you want,
(You can use it as is) or you can high light it, Group it, and save it as a New Oval Recessed Dish Pattern for your pattern menu.
Let me Know how it works for you.

[Kenm810]

Now for the an Oval Dish,
Open designer and put your new Recessed oval Pattern on the project on the Designer screen,
center it and set the size you want, You can use the snap to grid option to help you size and center the pattern.
Now do a copy / paste to put the pattern on the rear of your project board,
if you have your pattern centered on the front it will automatically center it on the rear.
Use the Tools menu to Out-Line your oval pattern on the front, and the Cut Path to select the cut-Out.
To form the Foot or Base for your Dish you use the Oval Tool to draw an oval of suitable for your Dish and add a bit of Draft.
Then a draw a second oval and carve Reagion, pluse Select Surface Double Dome to from the depressing in the base, center it and Merge it Subtractive (-).
You can modify nearly all the measurements to make the Dish Thicker, Thiner, Deeper or shallower.
Experiment a little to see what you can come up with.

Hope this Helps a little :wink:

[wizer]

Sorry it took so long, the Grand kids came over and I had to make Lunch for everyone,
Feels like the old corner Diner-Restaurant around here some days. :wink:


Ok now, let’s give this a try,
First draw a Circle on the Designer screen with the Circle Tool, then use the Carve Region tool
and set the depth to what you want also the height to .999, plus set it to Merge Additive +.


I got as far as here :( I make the circle, click carve region, set the depth. But then I have no option to set height? What am I missing?

[Kenm810]

Did merge it Additive (+)

[wizer]

yep I tried that, it doesn't produce a height box. Are we missing a step? It seems like, in your example, you already have the dish shape when you set the height?

[Kenm810]

Mentioned it in an earlier post "Select Surface", but skipped right over it in the last couple of posts :sad:
Ps. I made the corrected

[wizer]

I'm sorry Ken. I'm getting a problem with the surface. For starters I can't enter .999 into the height box, only 999. For some reason I can't type periods in there.

Secondly, I get a lip around the top of the dish which is not even.

[Kenm810]

Forget the period go with just the 999 it should remove the lip,
It ill disappear as you invert the Carve Region.

[wizer]

nope sorry Ken, the rim is still there even with just 999. The rim appears at depths over 0.590 inches

[AskBud]

nope sorry Ken, the rim is still there even with just 999. The rim appears at depths over 0.590 inches

wizer,
It would probably be best to attach your MPC, so your design may be reviewed. It's possible it's an illusion, or you may have applied the wrong dome.
AskBud

[wizer]

Sure, here we go...

[PCW]

Sure, here we go...

It seems to work OK up to .575 in depth.

[wizer]

is this a restriction of the machine I wonder?

[Kenm810]

wizer,

Ya got me, I'll have to Look really hard at it again,
I must be missing something, or maybe it just can't be done. http://forum.carvewright.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[PCW]

wizer,

Ya got me, I'll have to Look really hard at it again,
I must be missing something, or maybe it just can't be done. http://forum.carvewright.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Ken,

I tried your mpc with the four patterns and the oval worked OK but I had the same results using .575 on the circle.:confused:

[wizer]

:o I must be missing something but I just can't work it out. I don't want to blame the software (yet) but it's not very intuitive. You would expect to be able to examine each setting.

So when you use my MPC, you can't go deeper than .575? What about if you do the whole process again from within my MPC? Then we'll know if it's something to do with my software. Which software version are you using?

[Kenm810]

I'm working on my Desk Pc using Ver.1.153 on XL Pro,
I'll have to wait to try it on my work Pc or my Lap-Top
they both have Ver.1.162 with Windows 7 Ultimate.
In the mean time, if it opens for you, your welcome to use the last pattern file I posted,
"Recessed Circle 4-7-10" that I made today -- you may have to invert the pattern when you open it.
I know it goes to the Machines max depth of .80 --- just curious to see if it works on your computer like I does on mine.

[wizer]

I can see the .800 dish pattern in your file. But if I try to re-create it next to it, I can't go lower than .575. I must be doing something wrong.

1. Make Board 12" x 12" x 1"
2. Select Circle tool and draw circle 11" x 11"
3. Select Carve Region from the toolbar
4. Select Surface from the toolbar
5. Select 'double dome' from the list and hit ok
6. Change Height to 999
7. Change Depth to .800
8. Select Invert
9. Change Merge to Additive

[wizer]

Is there a way to escalate a forum post to LHR? I must have spent a good five hours on this. I'd like a definitive answer. If everyone agrees that I'm doing this right, then it must be the newest software that's restricting me some how?

[AskBud]

Is there a way to escalate a forum post to LHR? I must have spent a good five hours on this. I'd like a definitive answer. If everyone agrees that I'm doing this right, then it must be the newest software that's restricting me some how?

I think the problem is with the depth limit of this particular dome, not you or the software version.

Ken did offer a "Round Dent" pattern, last year that may work better for what you are trying to do. You will not need to draw a circle or oval before hand, Just bring in the pattern and apply your desired configuration.

The Round Dent may be elongated to give you an oval shape as well. I applied it at a depth of .800 and a height of 999, and it maintains the gradual curve to the top of the board.

Here is the link to Ken's post:
http://forum.carvewright.com/showpost.php?p=108893&postcount=2
AskBud

[Kenm810]

I'm ---- Back ---- :cool:


If you build a Recessed Circle like we spoke about yesterday,
save it as a Pattern at .5 in depth and a height of 999,
when you open the New Pattern it will say something like .559 in depth and a height of 100.
Change that 100 to 999 and any depth or size recessed circle or Oval you want,
--- give it a try and post your results.


ps. Thanks Bud -- Forgot all about Last Years Circles and Dents

[wizer]

BINGO!!!:mrgreen:

I did everything I did before. But this time I saved it as a pattern, created a new board, brought the pattern in, inverted it, set height to 999 and depth to .800 and BINGO. It appears to have accepted the .800 with no ridge! Brilliant. The proof will be in the pudding because it's hard to tell if it is actually deeper from the Designer screen.

Thanks very much for sticking at it Ken and Bud too.

Now I need to go back and finish the rest of the steps. Will report back on my progress. ;)

Oh one small point, how do I drag it to an oval shape? If I drag on the corners it keeps the aspect ratio?

[Kenm810]

Grab any of the yellow dots and give it a pull or squeeze

Ps. An edge view will help show you the difference :wink: