Picture Corners/Mitres

[robbrigg2]

Hi all!

I'm loving my machine again (it's a love hate afair which turns on a moment of times) but I am wondering if anyone can give me some pointers on doing mitre corners? I am making a couple of Karate Belt Display racks and am very happy with the first one ACCEPT for my corners. I have slight gaps which I do not want and am trying to trouble shoot.

First, should I do these types of cuts on the machine or the Chop saw?

Second, would it be better to do end pieces with grooves or possibly dove tails?

Would you recommend usind dowls? (My first one I used brads and glue)

Last, what are the best clamps for this type of operation?

Thanks in advance for all your combined expertiese and information. And to those who post patterns and work thank you as well most of the time you raise the bar for me but I like it.

Sincerley,

Robert

[Frederick_P]

Robert,
It would be helpful to see an image of your project and also to know what tools you have available in your shop. Would I be presumptuous to assume to have a table saw and biscuit joiner?

[Dan-Woodman]

Robert
Picture frames are tricky. You have to have accurate equipment, and the right equipment to put them together. If your miters are wide enough, I'd say use the Miter saw and biscuits. I would'nt even bother with the CW for this. It will do miters and bevels , but it's just one of those things extra that the machine will do , it doesn't mean it does it good.
You can get a lot better cut with a miter saw than you can a spiral endmill.
As far as clamps go , that also would depend on how large the frame is . Smaller frame I just use spring clamps that I modified with a point. larger frames I use bar clamps with light presure only.
later Daniel

[robbrigg2]

Robert,
It would be helpful to see an image of your project and also to know what tools you have available in your shop. Would I be presumptuous to assume to have a table saw and biscuit joiner?

Yes, I do have a table saw, router and table, scroll saw, 10" Mitre saw but no Joiner.

[robbrigg2]

Robert
Picture frames are tricky. You have to have accurate equipment, and the right equipment to put them together. If your miters are wide enough, I'd say use the Miter saw and biscuits. I would'nt even bother with the CW for this. It will do miters and bevels , but it's just one of those things extra that the machine will do , it doesn't mean it does it good.
You can get a lot better cut with a miter saw than you can a spiral endmill.
As far as clamps go , that also would depend on how large the frame is . Smaller frame I just use spring clamps that I modified with a point. larger frames I use bar clamps with light presure only.
later Daniel


Dan,

DO I need a special blade? Right now it is a stock 10" blade but I wondered if I might need a blade with more teath for a cleaner cut? Also, does cut sequence matter when I begin the assembly?

[Dan-Woodman]

Miter saws usually have 60-80 teeth blades . If you have a fence on your miter saw, cut all four pieces to length , leaving 2-3 inches extra first at 90 deg. If your frame is going to have a dado for the picture to ride in , do that next. Then cut a miter on one end of all pieces useing the same setting. Then measure and mark for the second end, and set up a stop on your miter saw fence,so the two sides will be the same . Repeat for other two sides. An inportant thing about frames is accurate miters and oppisite side pieces must be the same length.
later Daniel

[robbrigg2]

Here are the pictures of what I am doing. THis is the first of 4 that I am making. I made the cuts with my mitre saw but I am not happy with them. I had to use wood filler. I want to make it as tight as possible

[robbrigg2]

Miter saws usually have 60-80 teeth blades . If you have a fence on your miter saw, cut all four pieces to length , leaving 2-3 inches extra first at 90 deg. If your frame is going to have a dado for the picture to ride in , do that next. Then cut a miter on one end of all pieces useing the same setting. Then measure and mark for the second end, and set up a stop on your miter saw fence,so the two sides will be the same . Repeat for other two sides. An inportant thing about frames is accurate miters and oppisite side pieces must be the same length.
later Daniel

Thanks Dan,

That helps

[Frederick_P]

Personally, I get better miters on my table saw than I do on my chop saw. If you want "picture perfect" fits, first check the alignment of the table saw to ensure that the saw blade is a true 45 degrees to the surface of the table and that the blade is absolutely parallel to the miter slot.

It really helps if you have a good miter gauge with a long extension but some woodworker swear by making their own fixed angle boxes that fit into the slot. In any case, the key to a perfect miter is to make sure that everything is aligned perfectly. Aligning your table saw and your other tools is really something that everyone should take the time to do periodically because it will make the world of difference to your joints.

It looks like you are using 3/4" laminated ply, is that right? Two things will help to reduce the amount of tear-out you get so that the cut is perfectly smooth. First, I would highly recommend the Freud "Ultimate plywood and melamine" blade. This is the cleanest cutting blade I have seen. Second, score the underside of the laminate first, either with a table saw (light, 1/16" pass) or with a box knife to break the fibers of the laminate so they do not tear away.

All of this will do no good of your four pieces are not exactly the right size. Use stop blocks to ensure that the two long and two short pieces are exactly the same.

I prefer biscuits to join the corners together, but if you don't have a biscuit joiner the easiest way to get a strong joint is to counter sink some screws about 1/4" down from the surface and then lay some plugs into the holes. If you drill from the top and bottom instead of the sides the plugs will not be too obvious. Dowels are fine as well but a lot more tricky to get them in perfect. Glue and finishing nails is also a workable solution if the final project is not required to be subjected to too much torsional stress.

Don't waste valuable machine time on your CarveWright by doing tasks that traditional tools can do better and faster.

[Woodhacker]

I agree with Dan. The best fool for miters is a chop saw or the table saw. You can get very accurate miters with either one. As for clamps, I use a band clamp that goes around the entire frame and gives equal clamping pressure on all four (or 6, or 8, or however many) sides. As someone else noted, the machine WILL cut miters, but I am thinking it is not the machine to use for somethig that needs really close tolerances. Like a picture frame.

Richard

[robbrigg2]

Thanks Fredrick,

That was great information.

As far as the wood, this one was made from 3/4" red oak. Though I might make some from laminated wood later on so your info will come in very handy. Also thanks for the low down on the blade I will go get one tomorrow or the next day.

What I did here was use the glue, and brads, but I had actually thought about the screw method you mentioned. I've also thought I might save same headaces and change the end pieces to a grooved design but I think I need to get this corner thing down, it will make me better in the long run.

Thanks again,.

[robbrigg2]

I saw one of these clamps the other day and almost bought it but I'm a sucker for the things I know so I've used traditional cabinet makers clamps but they are too cumbersome. I think I will get some of those band clamps. For a project like the one I pictured do you need to use one or two clamps? One in the center or one on each end?

[Woodhacker]

A band clamp just goes around the whole project and clamps it as a unit. Best thing in the world for frames.

Richard

[Frederick_P]

A great frame clamp that is surprisingly affordable is the Veritas unit sold by Lee Valley Tools:

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=31162&cat=1,43838

I bought two of these units and they are so easy and quick to use that I almost never use my old band clamp.

But the band clamp would be a little cheaper.

[JDPratt]

I make a tremendous amount of frames and mitered joints and I concur completely that tool set-up is crucial. I actually have a dedicated saw with a 100 tooth, thin kerf blade. Another great and quick clamp is the Bessey band clamp. I am a big fan of the bessey assortment of clamping systems.

http://www.besseytools.com/products/wood/AngleStrap.php

[Dan-Woodman]

Robert
Thanks for the pictures.When cutting this kind of joint on the CW, they call it a "Bevel" and it's not as smooth as a miter saw cut.
A 45deg. cut across the width of a flat board is what CW is calling a "miter". I agree with another poster that wider boards such as this may be better off cut on a accurate table saw with blade tilted at 45 deg. Just some more info to consider.
Wood is also a consideration for good mitered frame. It must be warp free and cup free and all4 sides the same thickness.
later Daniel

[robbrigg2]

Thanks everyone, you have given me some great information to go with. I wil report back when I make the next box and let you know how it turns out.