4 Axis Work... The Future of the CW. [Archive]

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Digitalwoodshop

06-14-2009, 10:48 AM

OK... It's OK to Dream..... I have been following this post over on Sawmill Creek and borrowed a photo to show what they are doing with a home made 4th axis.... (Corrected.... Was not Homemade..... Was a Repair.... to a $250K Machine....)

This is possible for the CW now if we would make a manual index sled but the jig would have limitations.

I dream of the day when LHR comes out with the sled with a Powered 4th Axis driven by a motor and gear box like the X Drive.

I believe he scanned the left leg.... Excellent work.... And he made the 4th axis himself.... A Wood Worker with Excellent Mechanical Tallent... (Correction.... Was a Scan but a LASER SCAN and some other work... And he is the Department Head of a IT/CNC Depatment read more below)

THIS IS THE FUTURE OF the CW.... I would buy this upgrade.... Remember LHR must have been thinking 4th Axis as the new Probe Jack is the a 4th Axis wiring setup. It would require a Designer program to include the 4th Axis.

They could sell the motor and spindle setup and we could make our own sled....
AL

rjustice

06-14-2009, 11:44 AM

OK... It's OK to Dream..... I have been following this post over on Sawmill Creek and borrowed a photo to show what they are doing with a home made 4th axis....

This is possible for the CW now if we would make a manual index sled but the jig would have limitations.

I dream of the day when LHR comes out with the sled with a Powered 4th Axis driven by a motor and gear box like the X Drive.

I believe he scanned the left leg.... Excellent work.... And he made the 4th axis himself.... A Wood Worker with Excellent Mechanical Tallent...

THIS IS THE FUTURE OF the CW.... I would buy this upgrade.... Remember LHR must have been thinking 4th Axis as the new Probe Jack is the a 4th Axis wiring setup. It would require a Designer program to include the 4th Axis.

They could sell the motor and spindle setup and we could make our own sled....
AL

Hi AL,
I have been thinking about this same concept, and actually have an antique that needs a part similar to one of the legs shown in your photo. When you think about it, you really dont need 4 axis capability. (although it would be nice).. If you take the "Y" axis connections, and adapt them to a horizontal rotary table, where 360 degrees of rotation equals the movement of the "Y" axis, in theory you could adapt the machine to work "as-is"... You would just mechanically lock the "Y" axis, and have a quick connect cable that you pulled from "Y" and moved it to the "B" (rotary axis) then it would make a raster cut back and forth, from zero degress to 360 degrees back to zero degrees, and the machine wouldnt know the difference! The rotary could be on a nice, permanent, sled type design that had a moveable center on the oppisite end. You would be able to use your probe as usual, and it would duplicate the round object perfectly...
The only thing to figure out is how you would get the bit plate touch off!... if that could be figured out, this could happen fairly easily.

Any thoughts?? LOL....

Ron

Digitalwoodshop

06-14-2009, 12:22 PM

Bit Plate and left side bob is a big problem just moving the Y. Torque is another issue. The guy broke a drive belt and the machine was carving and he called it a "Depends Moment".... With the 4th Axis free wheeling and a spinning bit.... So a X type gear box would be needed to hold the piece.

Then there is scale factor... The Length of the Y converted to the circumference of the work piece. With his software it took much trial and error to get the scale factor zeroed in.... We have no access to the scale factor except if we designed it into the gear box.

I think if you made a jig now and divided it up into 8 or 12 flat surface carves, rotating the work piece with each carve it is something you could do now. Similar to how they cut the race car.

Even carving a square spindle is possible now, just index it 4 times.... Cutting on a flat surface.... If someone made a few patterns that were a curve 1.5 inches wide and 3 feet long it could be setup like carving on a Dish Shape now.

For the PTN Challenged like me, I would just scan a dowel..... in length down the table.

Or use a dowel as a starting piece and index it 4, 6, 8, 12, or more times... Creating strips of artwork 1.5 x 36 and just carve it over and over with each index... The Sled would need a removable top cover with a 1.5 x 36 slot cut into it so the board sensor would be happy. And the board width would just be the sled width and the strips would be centered on the board / sled.....

Future POM stuff for the .ptn GODS....

If they can carve 3D fish this should be easy....

AL

HighTechOkie

06-14-2009, 12:24 PM

Which 3D modeling programs, if any, can unwrap a 3D object? Assuming 14.5" Y travel, would equal a 4.6" diameter turning using round stock, or about 3.5" using square stock.

I have not worked with material thicker than 1.5", so I don't know how the find thickness and board width routines would work either.

Also need to make sure the max linear velocity of the turning = the Y travel velocity so feed rates stay the same or slower.

If you could live with a max length of 14", it would be much easier to design a rotating sled parallel to the Y axis.

Rob

Digitalwoodshop

06-14-2009, 12:33 PM

Was that the way they did the Cars, 14.5 was length..... You could use that now to make segmented pieces and glue them together....

Good call....

I wish this was mid winter and I could "PLAY"..... Got another sign to cut... Off to the Bat Cave.... I mean CW....

AL (Who?)

rjustice

06-14-2009, 01:16 PM

The rotary table i have in mind is worm gear driven, so you would have enormous mechanical gearing advantage. To figure the pulses that would equal the travel of the machine, I dont think would be difficult. If it wasnt exact, as long as it traveled more than 360 deg. it would just slightly overlap, which would probably be a good thing... and since it would be rotating back and forth, it would repeat. I dont think it would have any problem whatsoever,... but the bit touch off... HMMMM....

Fun to think out loud every now and then!...

Here is a wild thought for running parallel to the y axis... what if you made a mechanical switch hit at each end stroke of the travel. This switch would send a signal for an index to a seperate stepper controller to rotate by a predetermined angle....

Nah... you would then have to worry about locking the x axis, and rigging up switches to fool the board sensors....LOL

Digitalwoodshop

06-14-2009, 01:31 PM

Here is a thought triggered by Ron's thoughts.....

Build a jig to hold a quart size coffee can and mount it like the race car....

Now gear it with a X Gear Train and unplug the sand paper belts.

The Board Length is now the circumference of the can and adjustable......

Great Minds here..... That is how they do it with my Laser Engraver. You plug the jig into one of the Axis and bolt it to the table.

Here is a Laser Version. Since the Laser just burns the coating and no pressure is on the flashlight a friction device works. We would need a gear or worm drive. With wood chips the gears would need to me protected.

AL

liquidguitars

06-14-2009, 02:01 PM

Which 3D modeling programs, if any, can unwrap a 3D object?

Lightwave 3D can but the key would be to build it flat and then bend the flat work into a curve after.. also some texture programs will unwrap a mesh to paint in 3D.

LG

rjustice

06-14-2009, 02:17 PM

Digitalwoodshop

06-14-2009, 03:08 PM

A table that could raise and lower and a jig holder that could raise and lower. The sled would look like a Jointer Table where the spinning cutter head would be board length and it just rotated.

Fooling the pressure rollers and getting the board length detector would take some doing.... A Cam system built into the roller of the jig lowering the roller.... OR.... Had a Brilliant Flash..... A "A/B" switch for the jig with switches built into the rotating devices that were electrically switched at the right time and a place on the drum to act as a board edge.... Too bad you couldn't move the place the board looks for the board length to the left side... Then you could build a notch into the drum and use it as a standard length....

OR.... Since you are messing with the roller switches..... That is what is telling you the head has been cranked UP..... Control the switches you could Crank the head up and the machine would never know it....

SO.... Here is a Thought....

Cut a special board and use center or place on end...... Run the board through the machine to let it setup and get to the bit change part of the carve. Now by controlling the roller switches and keeping them closed or compressed, CRANK UP the machine and insert your JIG with a round blank inserted into the jig the same circumference as the length of the board.... Switch the X Drive over to the Jig.... With Power on.... Well that would not be a good thing.... Unplug a Servo under power and it could blow the Driver Circuit.

OK... Just went over to change bits and had a thought.....

Make the jig to rest on the black squaring plate on the left and the black plate near the bit flag. A centering and support jig could also be a upside down U shaped board that slides down into the gap between the sand paper belts and over the cross connector rod.

Now for the FUN PART.... You are now straddling the sand paper belts like standing on the edge of a Treadmill.... Now you build into the jig a roller of wood and rubber that rides on the first sand paper belt or 2 rollers for BOTH of them and use a tooth belt to turn the drum. You also run another roller to contact the brass roller. OR.... Since the Brass Roller just pulses, you might be able to just flip a switch with everything not moving and select the drum for the brass roller.... Building a brass roller into the jig....

Since the Machine indexes the sand paper belts and with the .8 carving depth.. This could be an interesting device.... Turning round stock into STUFF...... You could make a jig and use a mounted router and turn the block of wood turning it into a round blank for the machine if you didn't have a Lathe which is a tool I Don't Have.....

Darn... I should have been a EnGineer.... :rolleyes:

Back to painting signs....

AL (WHO?) The Future Inventor of the RollWright Jig.......

AskBud

06-14-2009, 03:15 PM

Isn't the program on board? You are allowed/required to raise the head in order the accomplish a 2-sided carve. It would seem a piece of cake to just increase the number of sides in the project. (Yes, I know this would not accomplish spirals).
AskBud

Digitalwoodshop

06-14-2009, 04:18 PM

There could be many variations of this theory.... Just like we all have our special sleds to do the things we do... Many sleds.... I like the 8 sided length sled.... Could do the Walking sticks I have thought about for a time... Index it 8 times.... Or do 6 at a time side by side and index them all and cut again... Not one at a time.... 6 at a time.....

AL:D

AskBud

06-14-2009, 05:57 PM

Al Said: "Could do the Walking sticks I have thought about for a time... Index it 8 times.... Or do 6 at a time side by side and index them all and cut again... Not one at a time.... 6 at a time....."

Cool idea.
AskBud

Digitalwoodshop

06-14-2009, 06:41 PM

All you would need to do is use the Snap to Grid and make your grid lines 2 inches or what ever the repeat is.... You could then do a 6 foot long walking stick from say closet pole from the big box store.... You might need to shim the bottom cut areas in the middle to prevent drooping of the 6 foot, but it would be easy as you would have access when you turned or indexed the walking stick.

If you designed it as a 8 foot sled for 6 foot walking sticks you could have the back end have a flat area flush with the thickness to let it measure and bit touch on wood. Then you would not need a top cover, just exposed walking sticks.

Cool Idea is right....

AL

Digitalwoodshop

06-14-2009, 10:20 PM

This has had a turn of events... Turns out the CNC Legs in my first post was made less than 25 miles from my house.... WOW.... If I only knew such a High Tech Place existed here when I cam home from SONY looking for a High Tech Job.... Guy, the maker of the Legs came over to here and read the Thread and gave some feedback and invited me to the Shop for a TOUR... :):-D

Chris is in for a Surprise in the morning when he read this.... Want him to go with me to visit the SHOP.... WOW !!!!! http://www.newwavewoodworking.com/page4.php

Sawmill Creek is in Maintenance Mode so I can't copy his post.

If anyone is really interested in 4th Axis work joining Sawmill Creek is worth it... I believe it is FREE.... I Contributed to place a Ad on the Forum.

Great CNC stuff....

AL

Digitalwoodshop

06-14-2009, 10:22 PM

Reposting the details.... Turns out that I was WRONG on a few details.... Not Home Made.... Not Probe Scanned.... LASER SCANNED I believe....

Sent Chris an email and got a reply.... 11 PM on a Sunday NIGHT and BOTH OF US are PAINTING SIGNS.... Some things never change..... Chris knew of this place.... Me... Well I was gone for 28 Years Playing Navy and working for Sony.... A High Tech JOB in my backyard.... I wonder how all my Sony Factory Automation training with Omron PLC's, Fanuc Robots would look on a Resume back then...?

Here are the posts:

Guy,

I borrowed a picture from your EXCELLENT post above to spur some discussion on the CarveWright Forum. Hope you don't mind I borrowed your picture.

It has many of use dreaming of a 4th axis and some interesting discussion. I post under digitalwoodshop.

http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?t=11775 (http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?t=11775)

AL

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Al,

No problem borrowing the photo, you may want to copy and paste my entire article from here to your forum as you missed a few details.

Also, my 4th axis that made this leg is not homemade. Actually none of my 4th axis setups are. The machine that carved these legs cost 250K, tooling not included. I can also produce the same leg on my ShopBot or on my CAMaster with the same results.

When our company got the ShopBot, they had purchased one of the first available 4th Axis setups there was. I have been making 3D models and programming 4th axis now for a little over 3 and 1/2 years.
Rarely, I am at the Shopbot forum and only recently have I actively engaged in the forums here and at CAMheads. The skull that is my avatar was done over two years ago. The 4th axis programming is done using Visual Mill. In fact, most all of my programming is done using Visual Mill. There are times I write the occassional hand program because it is faster.

I have made so many variations of furniture legs using 4th axis that I can't even remember 10% of them anymore.

Al, since you are in Shohola PA, you should hop on Route 6 and head up to Honesdale. I would be more then happy to spend some time with you and have you tour our shop.

Thanks again for the admiration of my work.

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Wow !!!! 20 miles away.... WOW !!!! And THANKS for letting me post the picture. Should have asked first...

That is fantastic work..... !!!!! And a $250K Plus machine..... And yes, I did get the details wrong... Oops...

Found your profile and work website on CAMheads.org and enjoyed seeing the High Tech Equipment in my own backyard.... WOW.....

My CarveWright Neighbor Buddy Chris, would love to join in the tour.... He has done some great pattern work.

As you saw if you looked at my website, my business is divided between Wood Signs and Fire Department Stuff that I sell through Signal 1 Fire in Honesdale and on my website. Just a one man shop.

Made the Wayne County Fair Fire Awards from Oak last year. Post 5 here has pictures http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=97967 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=97967)

I am excited to learn more about 4 Axis work....

Thanks for the Post, you made my day. 10 PM on a Sunday night and my machine just finished cutting a oval sign, I love this stuff.....

AL
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Some Earlier stuff.... Copied with permission of Guy Mathews

Strictly 4th Axis Work
I have started this thread on CAMheads and CNCzone as well. Share your 4th axis work, questions, tips and tricks here. I will also be starting threads that deal with laser scanning and digital reproduction.

More photos of this project and some of my other 4th axis work can be seen at camheads.org

You may need to register to view photos.

http://www.camheads.org/member.php?u=190 (http://www.camheads.org/member.php?u=190)

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This video was the first cuts we made with the new Recoil Mill. I am working on a second video for the owls from the previous post.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RIPsZHinSc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RIPsZHinSc)

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As promised, a pair of Hooter's carved on a CNC Router.
These are the Hooter's I carved a few weeks ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xtd-xFukZQ4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xtd-xFukZQ4)

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Belt Drive to Gear Drive on A Axis.
Just finished my transition to a gear drive on my A axis... (indexer, lathe, 4th axis rotary, choose whichever you are comfortable or familiar with.)

New resolution for A axis is dialed in to my Wincnc.ini files and I am ready to run. Broke 2 belts on 2 different programs.

Torque from the spindle puts to much tension on the belts when the side of the bit encounters end grain during certain milling operations. The gear system and compensation idler on this setup alleviates the problem of broken belts. Should too much torque arise now, the spring will let the drive gear pop away from the gear on the headstock. It will cause a missed step or two, but that is about it. More then enough time to stop the machine and correct the problem.

Not nearly as bad as when a belt breaks and the part starts free spinning because the bit is turning at 15K!!!

The first time was a "Depends moment!" The second time, I ordered my gear system and went to work with the aluminum! http://www.camheads.org/images/smilies/smile.gif

I even put brass inserts in to keep the aluminum from wearing. The inserts can be replaced if needed.

More photos in my album at CAMheads.org

I need to send Sawmillcreek some money and become a contributer. Will take care of that this week and start a few photo albums over here so Creekers won't have to jump around looking for stuff.

Money is on its way Keith. Hope you take Paypal!

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A customer down in Philly asked me to make them 4 legs based on the model that was provided by them. (See leg on left in photo)

The leg was drawn using Rhino and portions of the leg were laser scanned.

Leg is 28 inches long and 3.5 inches in diameter at the largest bead. They are being used on a custom vanity.

Visual Mill 5.0 provided the G-code for our FANUC 10 Series and 10 Spindle CNC.

Total project time start to finish...

12 hours! Not all at once... A few hours here a few there...http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

My ribbon is a little off from the original and there are some small discrepancies. The original leg is not going to be used in conjunction with the others so the subtle differences are non-issue.

The 3D model of this leg can be milled on any 4th axis that can handle a 28 inch travel along the axis with a 5 inch throw. Bits used were a 3/4 inch hogging end mill, 1/2 inch ball mill, 1/8 inch ball mill and 1/16 inch ball mill.

The last photo is the 3D rendering of the model

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Another project for a well digger...
A local Well-driller has contracted our company to build a poker table for him. When I showed him some pedestals for the table to sit on he was not very impressed. He asked me if there was anyway I could make a pedestal that looks like the bit that is used for drilling wells.

"Of course I can!" I said.

The photo shows 1/3 of the pedestal. This piece was the proof model that I ran on the 10 spindle. The actual will be made up of 3 pieces of glued up clear maple. My CAMaster was restricted by Z height and throw.

The proof model took about 2 hours to carve out.

The finished poker table will appear on this thread in a few weeks.

It is 7 sided and to date every part involved with the table has been cut using a CNC machine. A table saw was used to cut the angles on the apron and that was it.

It boast carved inlaid walnut chip trays on maple rails, stainless beverage holders (trying to find brass or copper) that also have a walnut band inlay. Walnut inlay adorns the edge of the maple rails. The maple aprons have mahogany hearts and diamonds and walnut spades and clubs on them as well.

When finished, it will have a chocolate brown leather top, and clear finish.

The pedestal will sit atop a smaller 7 sided base on bun feet with an area of walnut that is being carved to look like dirt and rock milling coming up around the base of the bit.

I will keep you all posted.

Angus, I am starting the skulls on Monday!!!!!!!!

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Digitalwoodshop

06-14-2009, 10:54 PM

I did look at his You Tube Video posted above cutting with the new machine, never knew it was in my backyard......

Speaking of Backyard, check out this mini NORM.... And just for fun.... Things you can build with a CarveWright 4th Axis.... And a little TOO Much FREE TIME.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCiOrC-rR08&NR=1

Midnight... I am out of here....

AL

Guy Mathews

06-16-2009, 09:21 AM

Al,

I joined Carvewright although I am not a Carvewright owner. I will be adding more to this post as time permits. The sled idea will work. Not knowing about the Carvewright configuration I am in agreement with the fellow that said to use a pigtail from the Y axis stepper (servo) to a stepper on the sled. In 4th axis you only need the the X, Z and A Axis rotary to do carving on a cyclinder square or whatever. It is only when you get into projection pocketing, roughing and finishing techniques that require a 4th axis that you will be held back.

You guys are on the right track with this and I will be glad to offer any assistance I can.

Guy

AskBud

06-16-2009, 09:50 AM

I'll bet no present wiring need be altered. You/LHR could use the External connector, under the leaf, to accomplish the modification/attachment to control the new sled.
AskBud

ChrisAlb

06-16-2009, 09:56 AM

Guy Mathews

06-16-2009, 11:30 AM

Al,

You will not need to worry about the torque from your spindle. Belt drive for the Carvewright 4th axis would be okay.

The CAMaster that broke the belts... Well,

1. When I picked up the machine, I told them the belts would break.

2. My spindle is 10 HP on the CAMaster.

3. Many times I am hogging off 65% stepover and a 75% stepdown on a half inch end mill or better. Belts do not stand up to that kind of torque! Hence... a Depends Moment!:mrgreen:

For what you guys are proposing right now, a belt drive or direct drive stepper motor will do just fine. My shopBot has a direct drive stepper motor with a chuck. It has worked great for projects that have used 1/2 inch bits. The skull is one of them.

I will post some picture of the machines configurations this weekend. Just seeing the 4Th axis setups up close is bound to help you guys take your Carvewrights to the next level.

Hi Chris! Looking forward to seeing you guys.

One other thing, the 250K machine did not break belts as Al had mentioned. It was the CAMaster that broke belts prompting me to go to a gear drive. The only thing wrong with the 250K machine is the loose nut that runs it!!!!!!
Guy

Digitalwoodshop

06-16-2009, 12:40 PM

Guy,

Welcome to the Forum and Thank You for the input. I believe that the development of the 4th Axis is possible without LHR's help but like Bud said, the plug under the cover we now use for the probe data was I believe, designed for a future 4th Axis.

We have 2 hurdles to overcome with a 4th axis as a Y setup. The first is the bit plate function and the second is scale factor, Length of the Y to the Rotation of the drum. Items may need to be stretched in designer to come out on the drum.

An Exciting time for the Machine and the Users.

And yes I did get more of the details wrong on the broken belt... Ooops... Bad Habbit.... :roll:

Look forward to you insight and Great SKULL...:D

For my first walking stick jig, I am just going to cut slots in a board the thickness of the stock and mount a octagon plate on each end of the stock and do 8 passes of the artwork. It may only be 6 inches long to prove the concept but a start... Call it a DUCK CALL JIG.....

AL

PCW

06-16-2009, 12:41 PM

Hi Guy

Welcome to the board and I found your video's fascinating. We welcome your experience and look forward to more post.

Al (Who)

The clip about the steam power belt mechanics was pretty cool to. Makes a person wonder where these idea's originate.

ChrisAlb

06-16-2009, 12:48 PM

We have 2 hurdles to overcome with a 4th axis as a Y setup. The first is the bit plate function and ......

Al,

Maybe I'm way off base here but, the bit plate rises with the machine and presumably, the fourth axis jig would be under the roller level like any other board? If so, the bit plate shouldn't be a factor as the truck should ride right over and past it as usual.

Digitalwoodshop

06-16-2009, 04:03 PM

Chris is right.... For the jig that sits between the 14 inch Y of the machine and the Y is free to move.

I was thinking 6 foot long jig, fixing the head in the center of the machine and using the Y Motor to ROLL the Jig blank.... A Bigger belt or use a Z Belt around the carving piece end gear and a Y Motor mounted on the end of the Jig.... So X or Length would move a jig thought the machine and the Can or blank would move in rotation driven by the Y. Board Width = Diameter... Or Circumference.

Now this has me wondering..... What IF...... You had a round blank in a Sled jig that had the Y motor driving the wood in rotation and the bit went to bit check and touched the round wood then did the bit touching the wood and touched another area of the blank that would be the same depth of the Z..... What would the machine DO? How about the Left side BOB thing it does... What if a block of wood the same height as the wood thickness and bit plate.... All 3 equal distance.... of Z travel?

It would be like Zeroing on the blank.... The Left side BOB where the bit moves down the left side is the question.... What would it do it it hit the blank?

How would the Weight of the wood being moved work with the Y Designed to move just the Z Truck left and right..... Would it hold? Would a Gear Box version like the X be better.....

For Guy, the Y and Z are small gear box driven but the X is gear driven with more gears. The head does 3 Homing things, one is a up down at the left called a BOB where it does not touch anything and second it touches a bit plat to find the bit tip and 3rd it touches the board face in 2 or 3 places. For Cut Outs, it touches another plate to tell the bottom of the board.

So many questions.....

:rolleyes: AL Who.....:roll:

Guy Mathews

06-16-2009, 07:29 PM

"For Guy, the Y and Z are small gear box driven but the X is gear driven with more gears. The head does 3 Homing things, one is a up down at the left called a BOB where it does not touch anything and second it touches a bit plat to find the bit tip and 3rd it touches the board face in 2 or 3 places. For Cut Outs, it touches another plate to tell the bottom of the board."

Okay, does all this happen at the beginning of the program or during the programs run time?

Can you manually set the Z and override the machine?

Does anyone have a machine that they want to sacrifice for the greater good of the Carvewright Community?????!!!!!!:rolleyes:

I have included a sketch on my take of this plus a photo of 2 of our machines, the CAMaster 5X10 and our 10 spindle CNC Carving Machine with a Fanuc 10 series controller.

Yes, I know that my sled is probably too wide! But that's what these forums are for!!!!
This can be done and I do not think that it is that hard.

Guy

Digitalwoodshop

06-16-2009, 07:53 PM

ChrisAlb

06-16-2009, 07:59 PM

Guy Mathews

06-16-2009, 08:01 PM

Guy,

There is initial homing zero of the Encoders then the one I am concerned with is the motions it goes through when you put a bit in it. So for a 3 bit project it does it 3 times asking for the last bit first then ends with the first then starts carving. With the second bit change it checks the 3 places again, left, bit plate, and board surface.

I have a 3rd machine that we can use to play once I replace a few stolen and worn parts.

I look forward to meeting you.

AL

Those parts wasn't stolen, they was creatively accquired by someone who needed them more than the last guy what owned em!!!:-D

Sorry, couldn't resist!

Al, I live in Narrowsburg on 97. Do not be surprised when I show up on your doorstep with a laptop in my hand and digital calipers in my pocket protector!!!!

Guy Mathews

06-17-2009, 05:40 AM

Perhaps the thing to do here buddy is bring one of our machines with us when we visit. Then we can simply show Guy the operation phases on a small carve with a few different elements on it.

Unfortunately Guy, we have little to no control over how the CW operates and the steps it takes in the process. Without redesigning electronics and control logic that is.

Chris is the file code for carving a project encrypted or can we open it up with notepad or some other program and perform evil diabolical things on it that LHR had never intended?

One of the great pleasures I have in working for New Wave is that we know what the machines are supposed to do, however, I have always been given the honor of pushing the envelope on what they might be able to do.

So far just a few broken bits and a couple of table fires! Nothing major!

When you understand what it is supposed to do, it is very easy to circumnavaigate the designers intent and make the machine do what you want it to do because the designer is often too involvled in the original concept to realize the full potential of something. I am willing to bet that they never even considered 4th axis when this machine was in R&D.

ChrisAlb

06-17-2009, 05:47 AM

Chris is the file code for carving a project encrypted or can we open it up with notepad or some other program and perform evil diabolical things on it that LHR had never intended?

One of the great pleasures I have in working for New Wave is that we know what the machines are supposed to do, however, I have always been given the honor of pushing the envelope on what they might be able to do.

So far just a few broken bits and a couple of table fires! Nothing major!

When you understand what it is supposed to do, it is very easy to circumnavaigate the designers intent and make the machine do what you want it to do because the designer is often too involvled in the original concept to realize the full potential of something. I am willing to bet that they never even considered 4th axis when this machine was in R&D.

Morning Guy,

It's compiled in the designer software and loaded to a memory card that goes in the machine. To the best of my knowledge, there is no way to open it up and manipulate it. It's not like G-Code or other CNC languages in that sense.

Also, (not sure if you know this), the CW uses servo motors not steppers on all axis.

Believe me, I wish we could access the file to even look at it. The card reader/writer doesn't even show up as a drive on the system so we can't even see the file on the card. How's that for diabolical? LOL

Guy Mathews

06-17-2009, 07:55 AM

Those evil guys!!!! Where there is a computer there is a 15 year old geek that can crack the files. Just look at the kid who cracked the Iphones.

They made this thing almost foolproof. Something had to write that file and something has to read that file.

The geeks will find out then look out.

Our CAMaster is servo motors as well.

WinCNC software and hardware to make it move.

I can't wait for you guys to come up here!!!

:D

Guy Mathews

06-19-2009, 08:19 PM

Here is a little teaser for you guys. I know its not a CW, but the concept and the priciples apply to any machine. You are only limited by size.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0I5NKZkLuw0

drwatkins

06-19-2009, 08:48 PM

PCW

06-19-2009, 09:03 PM

Not AskBud but this may help. http://www.carvespot.com/forum/read.php?3,440
Ron also sells a good square bit tool.

drwatkins

06-19-2009, 09:07 PM

Thanks PCW I'll check this out right now

AskBud

06-19-2009, 09:08 PM

Hey Bud I looked you up and the forum said you were in this thread.
Need some help sir, I got my machine three weeks ago and have not gotten the first good carving off of it. It is a reconditioned compucarve and I think they forgot to recondition it before sending it to me. When I first got it, the cover switch would not let me start up. Changed that and then encountered Z axis problems. Turns out the chuck is bent or out of balance and the vibration caused the z belt clamp to become loose. Carvewright sent me a new chuck but the square tool that goes into the the top of the chuck shaft broke when I was trying to remove the chuck. I am starting to become very disappointed in my purchase. I've been reading in the forums for info and help and it appears that you are more experienced than most with the machine. What is the trick to getting the doggone chuck loose?
Or Guy can you help me? I really am looking forward to doing some carving.

First, let me say that I'm not a Machine Fixer, I have the Sear's 5 year plan and have them do most of my repair.
The magic word may be "Compucarve". I presume that you got the machine from Sear's. The reconditioned units should have a 6 month warranty. That being said, I would list the problems and take it back to Sear's repair and have them send it to Repair location #8047. They should take care of your problems in about 3 weeks. I find it much better than the need to order parts that "Might" solve my problem(s). They run a shot test prior to returning the unit. It's their time and $$$ rather than mine. If the can not fix it you get a new unit.
AskBud

Guy Mathews

06-20-2009, 06:33 PM

Guy here, in reference to your last line of your problem...

"experienced than most with the machine. What is the trick to getting the doggone chuck loose?
Or Guy can you help me? I really am looking forward to doing some carving."

I can help you out with larger CNC machines and 4th axis. I do not have a Carvewright. I was invited here by Al to help with 4th axis.

I wish you the best of luck but I am the wrong person to ask a CW question to.

Now if you want to talk Shopbot, CAMaster or Fanuc 10 Series controllers, well then, I just might know a little!

When you get it going, I can guarantee you are going to love the feeling you get when you see your imagination come to life in a beautifully grained piece of wood.

Guy

Digitalwoodshop

06-20-2009, 07:16 PM

Hey Bud I looked you up and the forum said you were in this thread.
Need some help sir, I got my machine three weeks ago and have not gotten the first good carving off of it. It is a reconditioned compucarve and I think they forgot to recondition it before sending it to me. When I first got it, the cover switch would not let me start up. Changed that and then encountered Z axis problems. Turns out the chuck is bent or out of balance and the vibration caused the z belt clamp to become loose. Carvewright sent me a new chuck but the square tool that goes into the the top of the chuck shaft broke when I was trying to remove the chuck. I am starting to become very disappointed in my purchase. I've been reading in the forums for info and help and it appears that you are more experienced than most with the machine. What is the trick to getting the doggone chuck loose?
Or Guy can you help me? I really am looking forward to doing some carving.

If I were you I would get the ROCK Chuck from Ron with the Wrenches and Square Bit. Since I believe your machine is still in warranty you might want to replace the QC with the QC supplied by LHR. Keep the Rock until the Warranty runs out. Ron's wrenches and bit are heavier.

I broke my Square Drive tips too..... 3 on one QC... Still never got it off.... Changed out the whole Z Truck. A referb Truck that LHR might have used red lock tite on.

You need to heat the QC with a small torch, I use a Crack torch that I use for making the Epoxy Fire Tags to pop the bubbles. A Hair Dryer will work but it takes a very long time to heat the QC to melt the lock tite.

If nothing else watch Ron's Video on how to remove the QC. You heat the QC where the wrench nut is. Protect the rubber Z Belt or it will melt.

AL

Bill

06-20-2009, 08:40 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-RzYjSPzP4&feature=related

Digitalwoodshop

06-20-2009, 09:34 PM

There is a bunch of good CNC stuff there.... Interesting....

Thanks,

AL

Guy Mathews

07-02-2009, 07:18 PM

Looking forward to meeting Al July 3rd! I have a few projects that I am running so you can see the 10 spindle CNC in action!

Just posted this over at CAMheads a little while ago.

http://www.camheads.org/showthread.php?t=145

If you are not a member you will need to register to see the photos, registration is free and CAMheads does not send you bunches of email, so feel free to register and check out some of the stuff happening over there.

This and the other corbels are a good example of "indexing". That is when you rotate a part based on a known degree. In the case of the corbels, 0, 90, 180 and 270 degrees. An Indexer is most commonly associated with a lathe. this type of work can be done with 2 and 1/2 and 3 axis systems. The 2 and 1/2 is limited but you can still produce some really awesome work with them.

The 4th axis work that I will show you during your visit rotates the piece based on the step-over of the cutter. The smaller the step-over the smaller the incremental movement of the 4th axis.

Do not forget to have me show you the custom Bo Staff when you get there.

See you tomorrow Al.

P.s. The girl in our office has been instructed to say "Al who?" when you get there!

Digitalwoodshop

07-02-2009, 07:57 PM

Good Deal... AL who, Chris and Bob will be there at Noon and look forward to the tour.

Thanks Buddy,

AL

Digitalwoodshop

07-03-2009, 10:43 PM

ChrisAlb

07-04-2009, 07:44 AM

Yes it was an AMAZING tour and like a kid in a candy store, I couldn't help thnking..."mommy can I have that...mommy can I have THAT TOO!!" LOL

Guy is an amazingly sharp man and very high energy (Jezzzz...I thought I was the only high energy one around this neck of the woods...LOL). He has an uncanny knowledge of many CNC machines, software applications and coding. Also a very high talent in hand drawing/sculpting with various modeling software. A TRUE treat for any woodworker to see him, and his facility in action.

Thanks so much Guy and I'm looking forward to showing you a little something on that bat. I've already started it and hopefully, it will be done this weekend but being the 4th of July, who knows. The beers and steaks are tasting good already.....http://forum.carvewright.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

After all, I can't be "completely" outdone here....LOL

Guy Mathews

07-08-2009, 08:40 AM

Visit went WELL, over 3 hours of WOOD WORKERS DELIGHT.... Even got a great souvenir.

Watched a Shop Bot go through it's paces and it even carved our souvineer.... Text on a small bat..... 4th AXIS shop bot...

Saw the other big CNC and the 10 station CNC do it's stuff.... SO COOL.....

Looked at some very cool software too and 2 3D Laser Scanners.... Very COOL......

Look for pictures soon.... I took the camera with 20 seconds of battery life left.... Bummer....

Thanks Guy for the Tour !!!!!

AL who....:D

Here is a photo of Bob (Al's brother) Chris and Al Who? proudly displaying their "Wifebeater 2000" souvenirs. I set up the engraving on the 4th Axis on our ShopBot so they could get a first hand look at how the piece rotates. It was a great day to have them at our shop. They are all stand up guys and welcome in our shop and homes anytime.

Kenm810

07-08-2009, 09:54 AM

Sweet Souvenirs,

If Ya see Al Who? again, --- Tell him I admire his taste in Causal Wear Shirts! :razz:

cnsranch

07-08-2009, 09:56 AM

You guys must shop at Norm's place :mrgreen:

ChrisAlb

07-08-2009, 10:24 AM

Here is a photo of Bob (Al's brother) Chris and Al Who? proudly displaying their "Wifebeater 2000" souvenirs. I set up the engraving on the 4th Axis on our ShopBot so they could get a first hand look at how the piece rotates. It was a great day to have them at our shop. They are all stand up guys and welcome in our shop and homes anytime.

What you should have done Guy was blank all our faces. First, it would have been easier on the eyes of our forum members here (at least in my case) and second, we really could have kept the Al (Who??) going strong...:mrgreen:...LOL

atauer

07-08-2009, 10:29 AM

Al "who" in that picture reminds me of Wilson from "Home Improvement". You never get a chance to see his face...

cnsranch

07-08-2009, 10:34 AM

What you should have done Guy was blank all our faces. First, it would have been easier on the eyes of our forum members here (at least in my case) and second, we really could have kept the Al (Who??) going strong...:mrgreen:...LOL

That, Chris, and the fact that we all thought you were a LOT younger :mrgreen:

atauer

07-08-2009, 10:41 AM

I thought he was a little older than what he looks. Looks about early 40s to me.

cnsranch

07-08-2009, 10:50 AM

I thought he was a little older than what he looks. Looks about early 40s to me.

I know you owe him one or two, but don't repay him by kissing up :mrgreen:

Digitalwoodshop

07-08-2009, 11:24 AM

AL Who?.... LOL....

Thanks for the WB2000.... And a great tour !!!!!

Brother was home to drive a friends BMW back to West Palm Beach.

Lucky guy !!!

AL

James RS

07-08-2009, 03:10 PM

Al "who" in that picture reminds me of Wilson from "Home Improvement". You never get a chance to see his face...

+1 I was just thinking the same thing lol

Guy Mathews

07-08-2009, 04:36 PM

I am willing to trade the original unedited photo of AL Who? for a Carvewright that is in good working order! :-D:-D:-D

You guys are having way too much fun with this!!!

ChrisAlb

07-08-2009, 04:46 PM

I thought he was a little older than what he looks. Looks about early 40s to me.

http://forum.carvewright.com/images/icons/icon10.gif....http://forum.carvewright.com/images/icons/icon11.gif....http://forum.carvewright.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I know you owe him one or two, but don't repay him by kissing up :mrgreen:

You're just jealous Jerry......LOL

ChrisAlb

07-08-2009, 04:49 PM

I am willing to trade the original unedited photo of AL Who? for a Carvewright that is in good working order! :-D:-D:-D

You guys are having way too much fun with this!!!

Hey now.....wait a second here. I have many pictures of Al (Who?). Let the bidding begin....http://forum.carvewright.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

Kenm810

07-08-2009, 05:09 PM

Hmmmm --- Lets see a CW for Al (who?) ------ Na that's alright ya can keep him. :razz:

ChrisAlb

07-08-2009, 05:16 PM

See, what you don't know is....did Guy really blank out Al (who?)? We could be just messing with you all....:twisted:

You might be looking right at him and just not know it and....I'll never tell. http://www.forexfactory.com/images/smilies/yim/devil.gif

Digitalwoodshop

07-08-2009, 06:10 PM

As Maxwell Smart would say about now.... Hiding in plain site.....

AL who.....

I believe there is a picture of me posted by me taken by Chris at the Wayne County Fair Fire Award thing last August.... Just remembered that.....

Still a BIG guy....

Guy Mathews

07-08-2009, 08:59 PM

And through it all, we may actually come to a time and place in this thread that we are able to incorporate 4th axis with the Carvewright.

I mean, afterall that was the original goal.

However, I have to be completely honest, this whole "Al Who???" thing is a hell of a lot more fun and less taxing on an already overtaxed brain! :p

Al, you are way too good for tolerating this whole thing!!!!! Remind me to buy you a six pack of whatever it is you are drinking these days.

No "Ensure" jokes guys!

Digitalwoodshop

07-09-2009, 01:22 PM

That "Depends".... Snicker.... Yes... A Boot Camp picture from my website... In my history section... :)

I don't expect to be able to spend time with the 4th Axis for a while... I am still too busy in the shop.... Just not enough hours in the day...

Bummer....

AL