Broken or Missing Tabs?

[Digitalwoodshop]

Learned something today talking to Software Support.... I was asking about the 1 Continue and 2 Refind issue with bit length. He thought that I was correct in that the 1 Continue uses the latest measurements.

That lead to the question of what could cause missing tabs?.... or Broken thin tabs...

He said he had seen that when the machine does the bob down on the left side of the machine just after loading the bit and spin up that a bit still spinning would CUT a HOLE in the plastic tab near the BRASS ROLLER.... That would cause a error as the bit would go through the hole.....

SO.... Learned something NEW..... Didn't know the bit touched the Brass Roller tab....

That explained why LHR told someone to replace the brass roller for a MISSING TAB problem and I wondered "WHY?".... Did not think they were related.... Little DID I KNOW.....

So.... If you have broken tabs look at the brass roller tab, and the right side guide, and the Bit Flag... All 3 have something to do with getting the tabs correct.....

Humbly,

AL

[rjustice]

Learned something today talking to Software Support.... I was asking about the 1 Continue and 2 Refind issue with bit length. He thought that I was correct in that the 1 Continue uses the latest measurements.

That lead to the question of what could cause missing tabs?.... or Broken thin tabs...

He said he had seen that when the machine does the bob down on the left side of the machine just after loading the bit and spin up that a bit still spinning would CUT a HOLE in the plastic tab near the BRASS ROLLER.... That would cause a error as the bit would go through the hole.....

SO.... Learned something NEW..... Didn't know the bit touched the Brass Roller tab....



That explained why LHR told someone to replace the brass roller for a MISSING TAB problem and I wondered "WHY?".... Did not think they were related.... Little DID I KNOW.....

So.... If you have broken tabs look at the brass roller tab, and the right side guide, and the Bit Flag... All 3 have something to do with getting the tabs correct.....

Humbly,

AL


So, with that new info, how confident are you that there is no real need for a bit stop??

[liquidguitars]

Learned something today talking to Software Support.... I was asking about the 1 Continue and 2 Refind issue with bit length. He thought that I was correct in that the 1 Continue uses the latest measurements.

I think continue uses the first measurement only and 2 "refind" looks one more time to the "Aux roller" so if the bit is "off" will just go into a loop cycle or by using option 1 "Continue" will cut the differential of the error.

been away from my units this week and can not check hopefully next week I can test it.

AL, you have the Rock chuck what's wrong? is it not indexing, confused now..

LG

[Digitalwoodshop]

I have not installed the rock chuck yet. So I have not had any problems.

I just called LHR and asked..... Then posted the results.

I am not doing anything high dollar like you are, so I will leave it to you to decide what to select, 1 or 2 as a error could be expensive.

Hopefully our LHR Visitors will put this question to rest with a post.

I believe a bit stop is requires to prevent me from pushing the bit up into the rock TOO FAR and then getting a Z Stall because it can't reach the wood. A Bit Stop is just part of the system and part of a working bit system.

Who knows, the next version of Designer may make the rock obsolete as any difference in length results in a Fatal Error in the middle of the project killing the project.

AL

[Digitalwoodshop]

I think continue uses the first measurement only and 2 "refind" looks one more time to the "Aux roller" so if the bit is "off" will just go into a loop cycle or by using option 1 "Continue" will cut the differential of the error.

been away from my units this week and can not check hopefully next week I can test it.

AL, you have the Rock chuck what's wrong? is it not indexing, confused now..

LG

LG,

With your close contact with the top of the Chain of Command at LHR, could you look into this and ask the top what the answer really is? And post the results.

I am just a user.... You are a Carving GOD with access to the top. No one above Customer Service would ever take my call..... AL WHO?....

Your projects make LHR Shine..... They need more shining stars like you for Marketing.

Where my Troubleshooting Tips can turn a angry user into a happier user, your tips and projects put money in LHR's pockets in new sales.

AL

Sent as a PM too.

[atauer]

Al,

If I was to choose a new hardware technician to answer phone calls for us, you would be my first pick.

As for the subject matter at hand, when it was first explained to me, it was stated that when you select the option to continue, it uses the depth that was just found.

Re-try actually tells the machine to try again, giving you a chance to make sure that the bit was re-seated properly or that the correct bit was even installed. There have been a couple times when I installed one bit and then when the machine called for that particular bit, I inserted the wrong bit.

I need to familiarize myself with the bits again.

[Jeff_Birt]

Remember why the machine cares about the bit length (Z offset) being consistent.

1) So it carves the right depth
2) So it does not carve deeper in one pass than you have it set for.
3) To double check that the operator is loading the correct bits.

In the past some folks have tried to 'cheat' the system by leaving the carving bit in for all bit measurements. Of course this defeats the whole purpose.

Designer has built into it a list of feedrates and spindle motor speeds for the bits that CW sells. These are safe feedrates that will produce good results in most cases and without causing undo stress on the machine. If the machine can't accurately determine the real length of each bit you are using then it can cut too deep causing much more stress on the machine. In addition if you use bits other than the CarveWright bits they could have drastically different feedrate/spindle speed requirements. So, using them 'could' cause a lot of extra machine wear as well.

So why mess with all this bit length measurement anyhow? Why not do it some other way?

There are a few ways that this 'Z offset' is handled in other CNC machines. One method leaves it entirely up to the operator. After you change bits you have to move the machine over to a referencing plate and lower the bit down to 'just' touch it and then zero the Z axis. A better method uses tool holders (kind of like the bit adapters that we use). You mount a bit in each holder and very, very, carefully measure the length of each bit. You then have to enter this length in your CAM program. If you change bits you have to set up your new bit in the holder exactly the same way.

CarveWright made it much easier on us by making the bit changing process simpler and more repeatable. Having to zero the Z-axis out with each bit change takes a long time and could lead to big problems if not done right. The same goes for having to properly measure the tool length when changing tools and getting it exactly the same each time.

[PCW]

Jeff

I can change out a tool actually quicker with the Rock Chuck versus the QC. To remove the Rock chucks bit it only takes a 1/4 turn and the bit is in my hand I use index to set bit depth. By this time I would be still fighting the QC to let go of the adapter.

As far as adding more stress I feel that running a out of balance machine is by far the worst of the two evils.


atauer

Al would be my hardware man as well.

[Wilbur]

Well I am not sure. I know that with my new machine It took me about 45 min to get bit out, then had to buy a new QC because I could not get new bit in.

Wilbur

[Digitalwoodshop]

Jeff,

Any chance you can get an definitive answer from LHR about the 1 Continue and 2 Refind question. Latest data or previous data and if it effects the cut path tabs.

The answer does not only effect the Rock users but the QC users as I have had it in the past and just had one yesterday with a V60 bit using the QC as I am going to change after I wrap up the projects I have in the works. Just in case I break something removing the QC.

And I see your point about feed rates and depth of cut, yes, having the wrong bit zero info could be bad just as a bad Z drive in the past caused the Z to drive into the wood until it Stalled and DIED... Something most of us saw early on, I know I had a few. That was stressful on the Truck.

SO if someone could chime in with the definitive answer that would be great.

AL Whooooo?

[liquidguitars]

Al,

the answer is simple, if you do not get the bit exchange in the exact same place every time, your tabs will be toast potently the 1/8 cut bit 2.

Food for thought is you can have separate indexing location for every bit " very smart " buy hitting the stop button and jogging to a pre indexed location on the sled. I use this feature allot in my guitar making with the Carveright.



LG

[Digitalwoodshop]

Great info.

I think the metal ring set screw stops will give repeatable results without a vibration problem as will the plastic tubing.

Just cut my last sign so I am free to change to the Rock.

AL