Head Count, RJustice Chuck - I'm IN List

[Digitalwoodshop]

EDIT: This thread has been closed. Let's remember that this is CarveWright's forum, they pay the bills to keep it going. It is just downright rude for another company to use this space to do their marketing. (Product announcments are OK, but this has gone way beyond that.) If you have a CW related product to sell feel free to announce it here but do your own marketing, start your own website, etc. Don't use this forum to collect a customer list. - Jeff_Birt


Got this PM from RJustice a long time supplier of tools and Square Drivers for removing the QC.

Giving Equal interest in what he has to offer here is a chance to give a Head Count too for another version.

I am out of the loop on this version but this thread can be used to post updates and info on the RJustice "ROCK" Bit holder.

From Ron.

"Hi Al,
I would like you to consider my version of the QC replacement. My version definitely uses the threads on the spindle and is not a PERMANENT fixture to your machine. The RC style gets JB-welded into the spindle. I don't think this is very practical, as you only get 1 shot to get it in there perfectly, and once you do it is there forever. In order to try anything different you would have to change the spindle or the whole "Z" truck depending on your skill level. (I know either wouldn't be a problem for you), but others would surely be afraid of this...
I am shooting for a ship date of no later than 5/12 for the first true release. I have tested several R&D versions to get to the point of what i am ready to put into production and feel very good about it.

Let me know what you think.

Someone suggested naming it The "ROCK" using the first two letters of my name, and the last to letters of chuck... so i guess let it be the name...

"Ro"n chu"ck"

Feel free to post publicly how ever you wish....

Ron"

This thread is OPEN for discussion and Head Count.

Lets see more.

AL


I might just do 4 of them too and see which one I like better.

[PCW]

Hi Al

Did Ron give a indication on cost factor on his chuck? I wish he would give us a little more information. A picture would tell a thousand words. Honestly I would prefer a fellow Carvewright owner and member.

Which ever we decide I in for two.

[rjustice]

Hi Al

Did Ron give a indication on cost factor on his chuck? I wish he would give us a little more information. A picture would tell a thousand words. Honestly I would prefer a fellow Carvewright owner and member.

Which ever we decide I in for two.

I would like to reserve setting a cost yet. I will be running a short production run this week, and will know what i will have in them after doing so. I will get a picture of the design on line tomorrow evening to share. I was originally going to shoot for 1 style immediately, but will try to get 2 of the 3 versions shown and demonstrated for everyone. There will be a difference in cost depending on your preference of which version as well.

Thanks,
Ron

[Kenm810]

Quote: -- from PCW, - Honestly I would prefer a fellow Carvewright owner and member.

I'll second that!

I've always have been very pleased and satisfied
with the tools and bits that I have ordered form Ron (RJustice).

So when the time comes you can count me in also.
One from each, would not break my budget.

[Digitalwoodshop]

That is the Freedom of Choice and a Fair Market System. Build a Better Mouse Trap and you provide a service and make some money.

Being able to freely discuss this topic and advantages and pit falls of a product is a great Asset.

I am sure most like ME thought the QC was the BEST Thing since Sliced Bread when I first used it. Like the Covair Front Suspension System, time showed the pit falls of the design. It was a lightweight and "Cleaver" system, just don't turn hard.... It will collapse.

Who ever comes to Market first and as long as the product continues to provide reliable service, will win over the most orders.

Good Luck,

AL

[SteveEJ]

What size bits will it accept?

If it is good, balanced and simple put me in for at least 2. Maybe 3.

Steve

[Steven Alford]

I too believe in "keeping it in the family", so count me in for one.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Everyone has a point here.... RJustice is a Machine User and Machinist...

The Eliminator does have a proven Track Record over time and all that is needed is a new Thread Design. Joe is reluctant to invest in 500 CarveWright Eliminators without some reassurances that they will sell. I can see that... but it is a business and RJustice has his Bacon on the line for a product he believes in.... That counts for something in my book....

Ice Cubes in Alaska are not that big of a seller as they are in Key West....

How Many of US Still use a Drill Chuck Key today.... 10 years ago that is all there was.

Innovation... Taking a RISK....

Winning BIG or LOOSING BIG..... It's a Business... You take a LOSS.... I had a loss in my business for the SECOND YEAR.... Things are looking UP..... It's Sunday and my fingers have white sign paint on them.... Yes I am at WORK.... 7 days a week 12 hours a day.....

I have given myself a goal... If I have not made it work by year 5.... I give up. That is when my Building Loan is paid off and I get my Navy Retirement Check back.



AL

[Gary Koval]

Yep,
If Ron makes it we will buy!
Gary

[Gary Koval]

Yep,
If Ron makes it we will buy!
Gary

[Tom75]

count me in

[Rick P]

I will definitely buy a QC replacement from Ron.
Cost is an issue for me, but so is all the maintenance and fussing time spent on the QC.

[jessrice]

I'd be interested in one that threaded on
thanks
Jesse

[want2b]

An improved chuck that threads on the existing spindle! Count me in for one. Don't change bits very often but not worrying about BB marks etc sounds great.
Rick H.

[newcarver]

All around good idea, bring it on!

[TerryT]

An improved chuck that threads on the existing spindle! Count me in for one. Don't change bits very often but not worrying about BB marks etc sounds great.
Rick H.

I think you could look for other benefits like, no more board sensors rattled apart, fewer broken bits, fewer broken wires on power supply boards, etc.

[rjustice]

I think you could look for other benefits like, no more board sensors rattled apart, fewer broken bits, fewer broken wires on power supply boards, etc.

You will be amazed at the difference in the way the machine sounds with the difference in balance... This is a very good point!

[Durtdawber]

I would be in for 1 or 2.

[jiml]

I signed on for one of the other chucks from Joe but whichever one the group wants to get I'll go with that. Jim

[peter_l]

Im in for at least 2.

I have purchased from Ron before and been very happy.

Pete

[LollyWood]

RJ has kept the twins running for over a year w/ the last 2 QCs I got from him. And I like the better "Mouse trap" idea, always in for that. And no one knows my machine better then some one that uses it like I do. (or more) So put me in for 2 please.

[b.sumner47]

You would be hard pressed to fine better workmanship. Capt Barry

[al2888dj]

Im in for at least 2.

[Retiredbro]

New here, had my cw about a two weeks, learned most things here. Put me in for one.

[Chief38]

Put me in for 1.

[coop2739]

I'll take 2. Thanks

[rjustice]

Guys and Gals,
I promised i would get something on line tonight to demonstrate the way I am approaching version 1 of my replacement chuck with pictures. I have been told that "Most" people use the 1/4" bit adapter for practically everything. If that is the case for you, this may be the least expensive option. The first picture shows the chuck in an assembled view with a 1/4" bit adapter in place. The second one shows an exploded view, with the accessories that will assemble up, giving you full flexability in this version.

Version 2 (I will try to show it by the end of the week) will be more of a quick change style for those that change out many tools with different shanks on most all of their projects. It will not require a change of the spindle, and will not alter your existing spindle.

Note a few things:
1) The length of chuck will put the tool in exactly the same relationship to the workpiece as the QC. I could have made this shorter, (and did on one of the prototypes) for strength improvements, but ran out of travel when carving a piece during testing.
2) The Rock Chuck is removeable, and you can go back to the QC if you wish, with absolutely no damage to your machine.
3) It is slightly lighter than the orignial so no worries about overloading the "Z" truck
4) The parts will be 4-5x harder material that the existing bit adapters, and can be used over and over again. I have a strong hunch that by using "Nyloc" setscrews, the blue loctite will not be necessary, and you can change bits out in the machine using the single screw. The tools must have a flat to do this. In my testing I havent used loctite or special screws, and havent had a bit slip yet, but i know it could happen, so use your own discretion.
5) Even though i am using a setscrew, there is a cut taken that balances the tool. You will notice a significant difference in the way your machine sounds after changing out.
6) The collet version uses 2 wrenches instead of an allen wrench to tighten, and is balanced by the nature of the design. It requires no flat on the bits, or any use of loctite to change them in and out.
7) The collet version shown is an ER20. I had to go that big to accept a 1/2" bit. Im not a big fan of the 1/2" tools in this machine, but was asked by several people to offer it, so here it is.... I really really like the ER16 which only goes up to 13/32 (.406) and it is much more proportioned to the spindle size.
8 ) I am open to designing a wedge type system to hold the bits in if that is what the public wants, but it will delay the release somewhat.
9) I welcome constructive criticism and will answer any questions to the best of my ability...
10) Please respect that this design is the property of Ron Justice, also known as CW_parts.

I am still on track to be able to ship a limited quantity of the 1/4" next tuesday 5/12.

Thanks to everyone for your interest, and support!

Happy Carving!

Ron

[Digitalwoodshop]

Interesting Concept !!!!

Good Job !!!!

I would like to test a 1/4 inch version when you are ready.

AL

[want2b]

Really appreciate the design work and improvements you're offerring. I have never used anything but the basic carving bit. I also have spent enough of my life to know when I see the better mousetrap. I realise I will still need to keep it clean but it appears to be a lot simpler. My only problem is it appears the entire chuck has to be changed to use a different size bit? For me not a big deal since I don't use any of the routing features but for those who use the full functionality of the machine it would seem to be labor intensive and also with constant changing increase the risk of crossthreading along with wear. Just my lack of expertise probably but something of concern to me.
Thx, Rick H.

[locovalley]

I'm definately interested in the 1/4" version and 1/2" adapter/accessory. I believe you mentioned that the bit shanks will need a flat machined on the side. Is this an absolute or just a recommendation (or something I dreamed)?

I use some of my bits in the CW and routers so I might balk at machining flats into the shanks of my bits. Perhaps the wedge lock version might suit my needs better or the collet version. I'll have to wait until more information is available.

Looking forward to additional information as you post it.

Joe

[PCW]

Ron

Looks like I thought it would. You have just earned your spot in my list of people that I bow to when they log in. Great job and right on time.

[rjustice]

Really appreciate the design work and improvements you're offerring. I have never used anything but the basic carving bit. I also have spent enough of my life to know when I see the better mousetrap. I realise I will still need to keep it clean but it appears to be a lot simpler. My only problem is it appears the entire chuck has to be changed to use a different size bit? For me not a big deal since I don't use any of the routing features but for those who use the full functionality of the machine it would seem to be labor intensive and also with constant changing increase the risk of crossthreading along with wear. Just my lack of expertise probably but something of concern to me.
Thx, Rick H.

Hi Rick,
Part of your observation is correct for all of the solid mount designs. They are all much simpler designs, and honestly i dont think there is any issue with cleanliness being an issue. All dust will be sealed out from the spindle by the locking collar. My thoughts are for those that mainly use 1/4" tools, i would simply change the tool out in the machine, and not remove the bit adapter at all unless you need to. This would take it to a 15-20 second change out for the most part. This covers a lot of people from the info that i have received. As far as getting something cross threaded, By design i made the nose of the bit adapter start into the spindle before the threads engage, therefore squaring it up to make the threads start straight every time. The locking collar will be full hard tool steel, and will take a ton of abuse.
The collet version may be a better way to go for those that change tools in a "medium" amount of time. It is going to use 2 wrenches to loosen up the collet nut. One will be the wrench that i sell with my QC removal tools, which will rest on the shelf inside the machine giving you the ability to have one hand to hold the cutting bit, and the other to loosen or snug up the collet nut. The collet nut wrench is short, and locks into the collet to pop it loose as soon as you start turning it.

Thanks for the questions...feel free to ask anything you wish

Ron

[rjustice]

I'm definately interested in the 1/4" version and 1/2" adapter/accessory. I believe you mentioned that the bit shanks will need a flat machined on the side. Is this an absolute or just a recommendation (or something I dreamed)?

I use some of my bits in the CW and routers so I might balk at machining flats into the shanks of my bits. Perhaps the wedge lock version might suit my needs better or the collet version. I'll have to wait until more information is available.

Looking forward to additional information as you post it.

Joe

Joe,
To be quite honest all of the 1/8 bits that i sell, I have never used a flat on them, and never had one slip. The set screws i developed as a replacement screw has a very deep hex, and is a slightly smaller hex that allows you to tighten them up signifcantly better without fear of breaking the hex out.
Now with the 1/4" shank stuff i have always had a flat on them, and feel pretty confident that you could have a tool spin in the bit adapter, and/or pull out. Most all of the tools that size or bigger have a flat. If you insist on not having a flat, you would definately want to go to the collet style. No worries of something slipping there at all... full flexability with shank sizes with collets too.
If there is an overwhelming request for the wedgelock type system, i will design it in. Just trying to keep it simple and as inexpensive as i possibly could for this version.

Thanks for the question,

Ron

[rjustice]

Ron

Looks like I thought it would. You have just earned your spot in my list of people that I bow to when they log in. Great job and right on time.

Thanks PCW... no bowing necessary 8)

[locovalley]

Joe,
Now with the 1/4" shank stuff i have always had a flat on them, and feel pretty confident that you could have a tool spin in the bit adapter, and/or pull out. Most all of the tools that size or bigger have a flat. If you insist on not having a flat, you would definately want to go to the collet style. No worries of something slipping there at all... full flexability with shank sizes with collets too.
If there is an overwhelming request for the wedgelock type system, i will design it in. Just trying to keep it simple and as inexpensive as i possibly could for this version.

Thanks for the question,

Ron

OK Ron,

That seals it for me! Let me know when you have the collet version ready. I've always felt safe with the collets on my routers and have never had a bit slip in all these years. I wondered in the beginning why LHR didn't go with a collet system in the first place since it's proven technology and it works.

Thanks for all you do for us Ron.

Joe

[Digitalwoodshop]

And the answer to that is they invented the QC before the CW or were thinking of a Cheap way to make a Tool changer for the CW in the early design years.

At least that is what I believe. Been wrong before...

AL

[rjustice]

I forgot to mention, that someone earlier today PM'ed me and asked about the probe. You simply take the bit adapter off of the probe, and it has a 1/4" stem that you can tighten up in either the 1/4 bit adapter, or a 1/4" collet.


Ron

[locovalley]

And the answer to that is they invented the QC before the CW or were thinking of a Cheap way to make a Tool changer for the CW in the early design years.

At least that is what I believe. Been wrong before...

AL

Al, You are right. I read the same thing in posts past about the QC. And the idea was a good one, but three small bearings holding a razor sharp bit spinning at 18K to 20K rpms always seemed a bit risky for me. This is not to take away from LHR's fantastic design work on the CW but I, for one, am glad the Ron is giving us the option to use something a little more conventional in design.

Be it a hand-held or table mounted router, I never worried about having an easier way to change bits than the trusy old collet. It only takes me a few short minutes to make a change and the most time is spent finding the bit I want buried in the sawdust. ;)

Joe

[Steven Alford]

So Ron,
With this new "bit Holder" system (QC), does this mean we will be able to use our own router bits, not the ones you have to purchase from LHR??

[rjustice]

So Ron,
With this new "bit Holder" system (QC), does this mean we will be able to use our own router bits, not the ones you have to purchase from LHR??

Hi Steve,
There are many of us that already do this. I sell many smaller bits with 1/8 shanks that work very well and have had good feedback. It must be done with some consideration and at your risk/discretion. Some basic guidelines to start with would be:
1) Must be center cutting
2) Must be carbide or carbide tipped
3) Flute length must be as long as the depth that you are carving
4) I wouldnt go any bigger than 1/2 inch, and i personally thing that pushes this spindle to the max.
5) As noted earlier, if you are not using a collet style bit adapter, you must have a flat on any tool bigger than 1/8 in my opinion.
6) Try to use tools as short as possible that will reach the depth of cut you are trying to achieve..

Those are a few that i can think of off the top of my head.

Again, note that this would be at your risk....

Thanks for the question...

Ron

[Steven Alford]

Thanks Ron, are you any closer to giving us a ball park figure on the cost of these?

[bowfingers]

Count me in! I sure would like to give the 1/4 inch with 1/2 adapter a try.
Cant wait!

[rjustice]

Hey Ron,

I use the 3/8" bit with a 1/2" shank all the time and it a thing of beauty seeing the CW cutting out guitar pockets..

LG

Hi LG,
Beautiful work!.. I love how you "really" use the capability of the machine to its fullest!
The 3/8 tool is not an issue to me... I think when you get up to 1/2" cutter diameter and over it is really pushing it. A 3/8 tool with a 3/8 shank would allow you to use an ER16 holder which looks much more proportionate to the spindle. I have lots of options on cutter styles in the bigger sized tools, but havent started to advertise that yet. ;)

[rjustice]

Thanks Ron, are you any closer to giving us a ball park figure on the cost of these?

Hi Steve,
I will set a price before the end of the week...

[AWoodsmith]

Hi Steve,
I will set a price before the end of the week...

Count me in for 3.

[rjustice]

Count me in for 3.

Thanks AWoodsmith!...

Ron

[ruggybear]

count me in for one

[Ken Massingale]

I'll take 2 if the price allows, one if I can't do two at this time.

[andes]

Yep! I'm in for 2 also!!!!



Got this PM from RJustice a long time supplier of tools and Square Drivers for removing the QC.

Giving Equal interest in what he has to offer here is a chance to give a Head Count too for another version.

I am out of the loop on this version but this thread can be used to post updates and info on the RJustice "ROCK" Bit holder.

From Ron.

"Hi Al,
I would like you to consider my version of the QC replacement. My version definitely uses the threads on the spindle and is not a PERMANENT fixture to your machine. The RC style gets JB-welded into the spindle. I don't think this is very practical, as you only get 1 shot to get it in there perfectly, and once you do it is there forever. In order to try anything different you would have to change the spindle or the whole "Z" truck depending on your skill level. (I know either wouldn't be a problem for you), but others would surely be afraid of this...
I am shooting for a ship date of no later than 5/12 for the first true release. I have tested several R&D versions to get to the point of what i am ready to put into production and feel very good about it.

Let me know what you think.

Someone suggested naming it The "ROCK" using the first two letters of my name, and the last to letters of chuck... so i guess let it be the name...

"Ro"n chu"ck"

Feel free to post publicly how ever you wish....

Ron"

This thread is OPEN for discussion and Head Count.

Lets see more.

AL


I might just do 4 of them too and see which one I like better.

[forqnc]

Definetly would be interested in a 1/2" collet version, when you get round to it Ron.

[slcombs]

I'm In For 2

STEVE

[Billions]

I'd like to try 2, whatever the standard replacement would be for the machines, Ron. I haven't used any other bits than the two sizes that come with the machine. PM with the cost/availability. I can PayPal you when the parts are available.

[pine acres woodshop]

Count me in.

[dkarcher]

Count me in.

[STEAM]

I would take two.

[Rocky]

I'm happy with what I have previously purchased from Ron; so, count me in for 1 or 2.

[peter_l]

I am good for one or two of each size.

Do we have a price yet?

Thanks Ron.

Pete

[rjustice]

I am good for one or two of each size.

Do we have a price yet?

Thanks Ron.

Pete

Hi Pete,
I will know, and share by the end of the week.

Thanks for your interest...

Ron

[dchris4691]

just in time my qc went belly up today. so i'll take one

[Digitalwoodshop]

Like me, you will need to replace the QC and any bad holders. It could be weeks until roll out.... Hopefully Sooner

Hey, I worked in your neighborhood... Poway / Rancho Bernardo, at the Sony Plant when they made Picture Tubes... Now the buildings 1,2,and 3 are a dusty parking lot.... worked in 4 too in the Calibration Lab. Miss it.....

AL

[rjustice]

Like me, you will need to replace the QC and any bad holders. It could be weeks until roll out.... Hopefully Sooner

Hey, I worked in your neighborhood... Poway / Rancho Bernardo, at the Sony Plant when they made Picture Tubes... Now the buildings 1,2,and 3 are a dusty parking lot.... worked in 4 too in the Calibration Lab. Miss it.....

AL

Hi AL,
Definately not weeks, I still plan on having 1/4" units ready to go next week, so for those that only use the 1/4" shank tools, I think they will be quite happy. I will have more info tomorrow...

[Digitalwoodshop]

Good Deal !!!

AL