View Full Version : Eliminator chuck inventor interested in making chucks for the CW machine
EDIT: This thread has been closed. Let's remember that this is CarveWright's forum, they pay the bills to keep it going. It is just downright rude for another company to use this space to do their marketing. (Product announcments are OK, but this has gone way beyond that.) If you have a CW related product to sell feel free to announce it here but do your own marketing, start your own website, etc. Don't use this forum to collect a customer list. - Jeff_Birt
Continuation of post from snood56 and gwiz (http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?t=11003) regarding Prateyaka post (http://forum.carvewright.com/showthr...=replace+chuck)about a modification to the eliminator chuck to use on the CW machine.
I just got off the phone with Joe Marmo inventor of the eliminator chuck we did not discuss price of a modification but he is very interested in making them as long as there where enough inquires.
Here is a interesting fact. Joe has tried calling and talking to the owner of LHR in the past regarding using the eliminator chuck on the Carvewright machine in the past and they wouldn't even talk to him on the phone or respond to a fax.
He also requested that we use this number (if # get deleted PM me)to contact him. He also said if he doesn't answer just leave your name and number and he will call each and everyone back. Call up to 10:00 PM EST.
www.go3d.us
04-29-2009, 07:09 PM
I must have missed the other post but what is the eliminator chuck?
I might be interested in.
I also would like to have an adapter for the remel rotary tool connect to the qc.
HT
SteveEJ
04-29-2009, 07:20 PM
I just talked to Joe. Nice guy. I told him that I am interested. I hope LHR shows some interest as well. Even if they do not want to eliminate the Quick Chuck, it would be a second option for the more hard core carvers (which I am becoming).
Thanks for the info!
Steve
Pratyeka
04-29-2009, 07:23 PM
That's good news. Will anyone here spread the word around to other carver forums where CW owner hang around?
Pratyeka
04-29-2009, 07:28 PM
I must have missed the other post but what is the eliminator chuck?
I might be interested in.
I also would like to have an adapter for the remel rotary tool connect to the qc.
HT
Please find my thread about the Eliminator Rc chuck here:
http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?t=10879
mark1945
04-29-2009, 07:33 PM
I know you will like the chuck,there is no comparison in the performance.Rc chuck is much easier to use.and runs with less vibration and noise.
I must have missed the other post but what is the eliminator chuck?
I might be interested in.
I also would like to have an adapter for the remel rotary tool connect to the qc.
HT
Sorry about that I was suppose to enter the links to the previous post which I have corrected now.
snood56
04-30-2009, 12:17 AM
Ring his phone off the hook.
Well the phone number for Joe Marmo didn't last long so if anyone would like his phone number just send me a short private message and I will be happy to send it to you.
Moderator pkunk was right in editing my post and deleting the contact number in my post because we are not allowed to post personal phone numbers in a tread.
Pratyeka
04-30-2009, 09:22 AM
Just a comment here to point out that this is about an alternative replacement chuck to the original Quick Change chuck (QC chuck) for those who have had premature breakdown on their QC chuck (for whatever reason.)
This is not about criticising the design, quality or maintenance requirements of the QC chuck in any way, shape or form.
This is also not about criticising LHR's customer service, which according to the majority of the posts on these forums is of good quality.
My personal experience with my modified Eliminator RC chuck shows that it is a viable and reliable alternative. It is easy to use and requires no maintenance. It does not eliminate the need to maintain the rest of the machine, only the chuck part.
The immediate effect of the RC chuck that I have observed is a great reduction in noise and vibrations. Also the operating temperature of the spindle, Z-truck and flex cable is greatly reduced.
This is the extent of my contribution regarding this matter. I have tried to be open and fair in sharing my findings with everyone. I am happy to see others replicating my modification with success, and actively trying to make this alternative chuck available to anyone.
For my part, I estimate that I have done all I could, and will continue to answer any questions about the modification sent to me. I'm now concentrating on using my CW to produce beautiful carving with a minimum of fuss. I will continue to contibute to the collection of free patterns here as much as I can, as it is invaluable and a great exemple of what can be accomplished when a group of people work toward a common goal.
I wish everyone good luck, patience and perseverance. There is a learning curve attached to the CW machine, and with each other's support, most everyone can produce great work.
liquidguitars
04-30-2009, 10:33 AM
Well the phone number for Joe Marmo didn't last long so if anyone would like his phone number just send me a short private message and I will be happy to send it to you.
Moderator pkunk was right in editing my post and deleting the contact number in my post because we are not allowed to post personal phone numbers in a tread.
How about a email address for the man?
LG
Pratyeka
04-30-2009, 10:55 AM
How about a email address for the man?
LG
He has no inclination to use email nor internet. Best to phone or fax, or snail mail.
fwharris
04-30-2009, 11:05 AM
He has no inclination to use email nor internet. Best to phone or fax, or snail mail.
Must be a life member of the "Lead pencil society"
SteveEJ
04-30-2009, 11:49 AM
I the conversation I had with him he told me that he does not use email. He said he is 69 years old and not inclined to learn about computers. This is not a bad thing at all. Space travel was designed on pencils and slide rules. Old style engineering is our history! :) Sometimes, IMHO, new CAD engineering misses the human side. Some say that problems are eliminated, I have seen problems generated as well. Just another conversation I guess. Not hitting on anybody, just rambling.. Sorry
Just make the call. I have his number as well and will provide it on request.
Steve
snood56
04-30-2009, 12:07 PM
Thanks to every one. I, as well, do not criticize LHR. They have given us an amazing platform to let us meld the clean digital world with the dusty shop. I am enjoying the challenge and can't wait to see the 2010 model.
mark1945
04-30-2009, 01:05 PM
Anyone who needs to get in touch with Joe,just send me a email,I have his number and address.Have been talking with him for some time about the chuck.
markiefishes@yahoo.com
RobertP
04-30-2009, 02:01 PM
I hope LHR shows some interest as well. Even if they do not want to eliminate the Quick Chuck, it would be a second option for the more hard core carvers (which I am becoming).
Thanks for the info!
Steve
Just playing devils advocate here..........
I have to wonder if LHR would ever consider bringing in another option for the QC, correct me if Im wrong, but isn't this guy a competitor? If memory serves me correctly, the owner of LHR invented the QC and marketed it through Sears long before the carvewright came around?
Digitalwoodshop
04-30-2009, 03:18 PM
I tried post the same tip this morning but AOL Crashed... Yes, I believe LHR invented the QC... So a replacement will be a hard sell....
AL
If it would improve the machine and it was up to me I would be calling Joe or having a set down with the people responsible for the development of the machine. The chuck is just a chuck but it is on the end of a $1800.00 machine and that makes a difference. It is like putting a lawn mower engine in a Cadillac. It should just not be. You need to have some pride in a end product no matter what it takes.
To top it off it is taking money out of there pockets via sales/service/support.
If it would end all of the bad publicity in regards to the QC and increase sales and make a better product all at the same time I would jump on it in a heartbeat. They have a good product but they need to listen to there customers requests for if it was not for us they would not even exist.
I don't care what they use for a chuck as long as it works properly and will last trouble free. At the present time if their chuck fails on day one it is not covered under warranty. Does anybody else think that this is wrong?
It would be nice to see someone from the top level from LHR address this issue here in our forum. Oh did I mention dust port. ;)
HighTechOkie
04-30-2009, 04:14 PM
While I admire your "perfect world" way of thinking, often times pride and ego get in the way.
To top it off it is taking money out of there pockets via sales/service/support.
Someone taking away service and support would be considered a plus for LHR as those are typically money loosing portions of a business. As for sales, yes this would cut down on some of the QC replacement and adapter sales, but most folks on the forum won't want to bother with swapping out the QC, so I don't see it having a big impact.
With all the talk of how bad the QC is, I have yet to see a true root cause analysis to show anything other than user error/dirty machine as the weak link.
Rob
While I admire your "perfect world" way of thinking, often times pride and ego get in the way.
Rob
Rob
I don't think it is to much to ask. If it was not for this kind of thinking we all would be living in a cave. This is how a company improves upon itself.
SteveEJ
04-30-2009, 04:46 PM
I agree with PCW. To add to that a little:
A lot of computer manufacturers designed and built machines that had non-standard memory slots, video card slots, etc. The components did the same things as the OEM vesions but could only be bought through this one manufacturer. The consumer was limited as well by this simple limitation. Those companies are now gone or have adapted the industry standard.
How does this limit the CW/CC. It really doesn't limit the machines because 3rd parties will, as long as the machine is around, develop addons or better parts for it. It limits LHR by putting a self imposed limit on their product line. I would think that it would be in the best interest of the company (LHR) to come out with a better chuck. One that they design and manufacture. One that could be an upgrade to what is shipped with the machine. It could be a 'Deluxe' or 'Heavy Duty' or 'High Hours' or whatever they wanted to call it. It would/could be called an 'Option' or 'Addon'. This, along with other ideas such as a 'Dust collection/reduction System' or 'Down Draft carving table', Dust seals for switches or dust blower to keep the carve bit clear while carving. This is just good business.
LHR not adapting will ultimately bite them in the butt.
LHR is REALLY lucky that most of us have screw drivers, multimeters, etc. and the ability to use them. Most of us can fix things like digging into our machines to see how they work. I must admit that this is the first machine that when I called Customer Service, they had the attitude that they were going to talk you through diagnosing and/or fixing it over the phone. Doing this to a computers operating system is one thing, doing it for a machine that could cause serious physical damage is quite rare.
If I had a metal lathe and the know how I would do the chuck modifications for cost + labor. I don't but am willing to pay for a better one. Apparently, others are too.
Another thing I would like to see is a software SDK for Designer. I don't think it will happen, but I'd still like to see one. This is one thing that I would get into. I have a few bits and nybbles floating around still. I trashed all of my old punch cards a while back after buying the Commodore 64/128 and Amiga.
I hope LHR is reading and listening to the users here as there are so many folks with a can do attitude. Taking advantage of them would be a real plus for them, the designers and the users.
JMHO
Steve:rolleyes:
SteveEJ
04-30-2009, 04:51 PM
He wouldn't be if LHR came out with one first!
Ask yourself this.. If the Quick Change chuck was that good, meaning, would hold up under normal conditions and was EASY to clean and service then why is it not covered under warranty? It doesn't turn any faster than the cut motor, It doesn't have surface rubbing conditions like the drive shaft, etc. These are covered but not the Quick Change chuck. Also, the failure hours are very unpredictable. This could be because the area that needs the most cleaning is covered by the hard plastic sleeve that is used to help remove the bits via the removal tool.
I love what this machine does. I love working with this machine. I love designing and carving. I love how people like Michael T and others design such great designs for this machine and how, it everything works you get a beautiful piece of work. But being totally honest here.. I think the Quick Change chuck is the achilles heel of this product. Sorry to the designer but thats JMHO. And for those that think otherwise.. I AM NOT MAD! :)
Just playing devils advocate here..........
I have to wonder if LHR would ever consider bringing in another option for the QC, correct me if Im wrong, but isn't this guy a competitor? If memory serves me correctly, the owner of LHR invented the QC and marketed it through Sears long before the carvewright came around?
liquidguitars
04-30-2009, 04:57 PM
Another thing I would like to see is a software SDK for Designer. I don't think it will happen, but I'd still like to see one. This is one thing that I would get into. I have a few bits and nybbles floating around still. I trashed all of my old punch cards a while back after buying the Commodore 64/128 and Amiga.
Like the idea of a SDK and one of the first tools i would love to see would be curved paths in Z
Regarding the Amiga computers My Mom used the 1000
I had the 500 and 2000 running Dpaint,DCTV, Imagine 3D. .09 beta :) later Lightwave 3D that I still use today.
LG
newcarver
04-30-2009, 05:01 PM
After having changed my qc twice, I don't want to swap a qc-again, Its not that fun, not to mention the tools you have to buy to do it. An alternative thats keeps that from happening sounds good to me. Cleaning the qc has always been at the top of the list for my machine before every carve.
snood56
04-30-2009, 05:13 PM
Wow!!!!!! I just did my first test using my eliminator mod. It was damaging to my hearing before..... Now I can talk on the phone next to it! It will probably double the life of my machine with out all that sonic vibration going on. My confidence is renewed. Look for many new patterns soon, as I can now test-carve them. Many thanks to Prateyaka. I owe you one. If you need graphic help I am there.
SteveEJ
04-30-2009, 05:17 PM
A friend of mine and I coded a Pacman remake called "Pacman87" - year 1987.
Dang that was a long time ago.. Shareware game of the year in the Commodore Mag. Fun was in the coding. I was really burned out for a while.
Steve
Like the idea of a SDK and one of the first tools i would love to see would be curved paths in Z
Regarding the Amiga computers My Mom used the 1000
I had the 500 and 2000 running Dpaint,DCTV, Imagine 3D. .09 beta :) later Lightwave 3D that I still use today.
LG
SteveEJ
04-30-2009, 05:19 PM
Wow!!!!!! I just did my first test using my eliminator mod. It was damaging to my hearing before..... Now I can talk on the phone next to it! It will probably double the life of my machine with out all that sonic vibration going on. My confidence is renewed. Look for many new patterns soon, as I can now test-carve them. Many thanks to Prateyaka. I owe you one. If you need graphic help I am there.
Feel like making another one? My chuck is going bad nd I am willing to wait.
Steve
liquidguitars
04-30-2009, 05:34 PM
A friend of mine and I coded a Pacman remake called "Pacman87" - year 1987.
Dang that was a long time ago.. Shareware game of the year in the Commodore Mag. Fun was in the coding. I was really burned out for a while.
Steve
Thats cool the Amiga had some good games for the time.
Working in games as a 3D artist in the old days I seen my share of assembly programmer get a little deep into the work.
programing is a hard job..
LG
Feel like making another one? My chuck is going bad nd I am willing to wait.
Steve
I will take one to if you decide on making them. Just PM me.
Thats cool the Amiga had some good games for the time.
Working in games as a 3D artist in the old days I seen my share of assembly programmer get a little deep into the work.
programing is a hard job..
LG
LG
I read somewhere that you where up for a academy award at one time for working (graphic arts) on the movie Voyager. Truth or fiction?
SteveEJ
04-30-2009, 05:41 PM
8 bit, 16 bit, 32 bit oh yea.. I forgot.. 30 bit Ultra.. Don't ask! It was a nightmare!
Steve
Thats cool the Amiga had some good games for the time.
Working in games as a 3D artist in the old days I seen my share of assembly programmer get a little deep into the work.
programing is a hard job..
LG
newcarver
04-30-2009, 05:47 PM
Just thought I would ask, how much does the modification of the qc cost? Is anybody willing to do it for me as I seem to have misplaced my metal lathe...lol
liquidguitars
04-30-2009, 05:54 PM
LG
I read somewhere that you where up for a academy award at one time for working (graphic arts) on the movie Voyager. Truth or fiction?
Academy of arts and sciences TV Star Trek Voyager UPN. 2 years in a row! :) but that's the old days, I am on to work with the replicators now..
Academy of arts and sciences TV Star Trek Voyager UPN. 2 years in a row! :) but thats the old days..
That is very impressive. Dam another person from the board that I am going to have to bow to when they log in. <smile>
snood56
04-30-2009, 06:19 PM
I got two Emmy's for CARPENTRY believe it or not. One was a gameshow called: "Where in time is Carmen Sandiego" and another for WWOR News in Secaucus NJ.
Digitalwoodshop
04-30-2009, 06:31 PM
Too bad the replacement just did not have the same threads and would just SCREW right on as a replacement. I would order 4 in a heartbeat, 3 for my machines and a 4th for a 4th machine I know I will find eventually.
AL
I got two Emmy's for CARPENTRY believe it or not. One was a gameshow called: "Where in time is Carmen Sandiego" and another for WWOR News in Secaucus NJ.
Karl
You have got to be kidding me. That's pretty cool. The talent in this part of the web is totally fascinating.
I really hope something comes of the availability of the eliminator chuck.
I am sure there are some machinists somewhere who could modify the chuck to just screw on....
Would this infringe on the inventor?
SteveEJ
04-30-2009, 06:46 PM
The talent here continues to amaze me! And the willingness to share is even more impressive!
It just goes to show you that a good machine will attract people. I will eventually buy another machine and will need to drastically reduce down time. I just finished a roll around cart for it. Dust collection and bit blower is going in next along with a computer type power conditioning system that will keep the power nice and clean as well as eliminate power bumps.
Off to investigate the chuck mod. I'll still buy one from Joe as i'm sure they will be a solid piece rather than a JB welded version.
Happy Carving!
Steve
Too bad the replacement just did not have the same threads and would just SCREW right on as a replacement. I would order 4 in a heartbeat, 3 for my machines and a 4th for a 4th machine I know I will find eventually.
AL
Al
That is the same thing as when personal computer first came to the market they made parts so that would not interchange with other brand machines (proprietary) so your choices are limited for replacing parts.
Maybe someone in our group will take on the modification for us. I will take two if they will.
Ron Justice is suppose to be releasing 3 different styles of replacement chucks for the CW/CC soon. I have no idea what they look like. May be a option as well.
His email address is cw_parts@yahoo.com
rjustice
04-30-2009, 07:38 PM
Al
That is the same thing as when personal computer first came to the market they made parts so that would not interchange with other brand machines (proprietary) so your choices are limited for replacing parts.
Maybe someone in our group will take on the modification for us. I will take two if they will.
Ron Justice is suppose to be releasing 3 different styles of replacement chucks for the CW/CC soon. I have no idea what they look like. May be a option as well.
His email address is cw_parts@yahoo.com
Hi Al,
Thanks for the plug here. I have been up to my eyeballs in work for the last several weeks, but have been making progress. Here is the scoop... 2 of the 3 styles of QC replacements will be able to be screwed onto your existing spindle. The cheapest option will simply be able to hold 1/4" bits, which i was told by many PM's that was all they used the machine for which is to use the carving bit. These will screw directly onto the spindle after removing the QC, and use a setscrew to hold in the bit. I have made a couple different versions of these and tested them, and have one i like that i will put into production very soon.
Option #2 will use an adapter that again, screws directly to the spindle, and will then accept a precision holder into it that can be changed in and out quickly, using many different size shank tools. This gives you the ability to do what can be done with the existing chuck, only it is balanced and in my opinion more rigid and robust... The holder that stays on the spindle will be full hard, the parts that hold the bits will be 4140 prehard material.
Option #3 will require the replacement of the spindle shaft. To make this a viable solution, I either need to make a rental tool to remove the shaft in the machine, or have people send me their "Z" truck to do the changeout. I am considering purchasing some housings for cores, that i could send out and simply recycle them as i get orders. I could also offer the option of not using a core if someone absolutely wanted their own housing back...
I am open to any questions, comments, suggestions, or whatever feedback you would like to give me. I will try to start monitoring the Forum better, and you can reach me either here, or by clicking on the link in my signature to drop me an email (this is better).
I apologize for this taking so long, as my responsibilities changed yet again at my workplace, and it has consumed me for many weeks (that is why you havent seen me here in a very long time).. but i am getting to the point of getting settled in and can get back on this project.
Thanks everyone for your patience, and interest!
Ron
newcarver
04-30-2009, 07:55 PM
I'm ready for either replacement. Who will have one out first? Too many good reviews, going to have to try it out.
Ron
Thank You for updating us on your process of your line of chucks. Please post some pictures and prices once they become available.
mark1945
04-30-2009, 08:45 PM
The only problem I have is I have 1 machine with about 150 hours that has original quick chuck and works great nice and tight always easy to release bit when finished.The other machine i have has about 240 hours on it it gets cleaned exactly like the other and went thru 3 quick chucks 1 which lasted only 20 hours.When this machine had 205 hours on it I modified a eliminator chuck and installed it .Now this machine has less vibration runs cooler about 4-5 degs on the flex cable and a lot less noise.There seems to be no consistency as to good verses bad with quick chucks.
Rick P
05-01-2009, 01:29 AM
Ron,
Your "cheapest option" for a QC replacement option would satisfy my requirements. I use the the carving bit, 1/8" cutting bit and the two V-bits almost exclusively. Using only one setscrew may present some balance issues, but I'm sure you have considered that fact...and there would still be the need for LockTite, I assume.
Thanks !!!
LittleRedWoodshop
05-01-2009, 01:54 AM
I have written many different things in response to this thread -- all of which I have deleted. I am just sitting here shaking my head.
Steve
Please do not do this it would not be fair to you and the rest of us who enjoy your comments. It is essential that this forum allows people to give there uncensored opinion without being punished.
I believe that respect to one another should be our top concerns and that should come before anything. Don't make me ask you questions everyday. <smile>
Icutone2
05-01-2009, 10:10 AM
What is the part # of the Eliminator chuck that fits the carvewright?
What is the part # of the Eliminator chuck that fits the carvewright?
Prateyaka post (http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?t=10879&page=4)
Quote Prateyaka
Here is what I did to replace the original QC chuck with a modified RC Eliminator chuck.
The RC chuck use a screw and a wedge to hold the bits. It takes only 1/2 turn on the screw to unlock or lock the bit securely. 1/4" bit need a sleeve which you can order where they sell the RC chuck. I used the RC chuck for Bosch router. I do not know if the other type of RC chuck can be used.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3451/3222087513_a2d27ac02a_b.jpg
Digitalwoodshop
05-01-2009, 10:36 AM
Looks GOOD... I see the lower right Z Truck Bearing Screw does not have the Support Washer. This lower corner has been known to fracture and break off due to a light casting in this area and the Wedge Effect of the taper of the Bearing screw head.
A washer would be cheap insurance for the longevity of the Z Truck.
AL
Pratyeka
05-01-2009, 10:48 AM
Looks GOOD... I see the lower right Z Truck Bearing Screw does not have the Support Washer. This lower corner has been known to fracture and break off due to a light casting in this area and the Wedge Effect of the taper of the Bearing screw head.
A washer would be cheap insurance for the longevity of the Z Truck.
AL
Not sure I understand. This washer is part of the original machine or is it an add-on? I checked and all 4 bearings are mounted identically on the Z-truck.
Icutone2
05-01-2009, 11:01 AM
Thanks Parts on order!
Lee
chebytrk
05-01-2009, 11:06 AM
Prateyaka post (http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?t=10879&page=4)
Quote Prateyaka
Here is what I did to replace the original QC chuck with a modified RC Eliminator chuck.
The RC chuck use a screw and a wedge to hold the bits. It takes only 1/2 turn on the screw to unlock or lock the bit securely. 1/4" bit need a sleeve which you can order where they sell the RC chuck. I used the RC chuck for Bosch router. I do not know if the other type of RC chuck can be used.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3451/3222087513_a2d27ac02a_b.jpg
Hey Prateyeka... have you had a chance to make a video and upload it to UTube yet? Sure would like to see the RC Elimator in action. Thanks
Not sure I understand. This washer is part of the original machine or is it an add-on? I checked and all 4 bearings are mounted identically on the Z-truck.
My machine came new with a washer on both bottom screw holes. The replacement Z came with Left bearings attached and no washers on the bottom. I did make sure they where put back in place when I reassembled.
Didn't know why but I figured there was a reason for them to be there. Now I know
chebytrk
He did post a utube video and it can be found in the later part of his tread.
chebytrk
05-01-2009, 11:39 AM
Yup, I saw that video. I was just wondering if there was another that came out with changing the bits (to see how it's done).
Yup, I saw that video. I was just wondering if there was another that came out with changing the bits (to see how it's done).
Jerry
From what I understand is only a quarter to half turn of one allen screw is all that is needed. When I talked to Joe yesterday he said that it does not take much effort at all to change.
He also said that they have over 45,000 of these chucks out in the market place and some have been in use on machines for 18 years without ever being replaced. That is very impressive. He also noted that he does take care of his customers. Small operation and very personable. Virgina is his home base.
Digitalwoodshop
05-01-2009, 11:53 AM
If you got the 1/2 inch version, could you get enough grip on a 1/4 inch bit with a reducer installed in the chuck?
AL
liquidguitars
05-01-2009, 12:05 PM
Looks GOOD... I see the lower right Z Truck Bearing Screw does not have the Support Washer. This lower corner has been known to fracture and break off due to a light casting in this area and the Wedge Effect of the taper of the Bearing screw head.
A washer would be cheap insurance for the longevity of the Z Truck.
AL
I not sure if you guys noticed recently but a new casting of the Z truck is in the works. it removed the need for the washer by adding more alloy where the homing flag was.
If you got the 1/2 inch version, could you get enough grip on a 1/4 inch bit with a reducer installed in the chuck?
I 2 have some concerns about the 1/4 sleeve in the EC but i told that no slipping of the 1/4 bit has occurred with the three guys running the EC. Some of my carves last 3hrs and @ 100.00 for a guitar top it better not %$#@ slip! or whats the point.
chebytrk
05-01-2009, 12:10 PM
I not sure if you guys noticed recently but a new casting of the Z truck is in the works. it removed the need for the washer by adding more alloy where the homing flag was.
I was wondering about that cause I got my machine in Dec '08 and it doesn't have any washer on the bottom right corner of the Z truck.
I not sure if you guys noticed recently but a new casting of the Z truck is on the new units. it removed the need for the washer by adding more alloy where the homing flag was.
Maybe that was the difference between the two Z's and I did not catch it. It's all coming to me now. I don't think the extra support will hurt anything.
Digitalwoodshop
05-01-2009, 12:16 PM
Picture without washer and picture with a washer. This was a refurbished Z Truck from LHR.
Washer eliminates the V Force trying to do a NUT Cracker on the Z Truck.
AL
liquidguitars
05-01-2009, 12:33 PM
A little off topic.. Here is the new truck design not a big deal but it shows that LHR is working hard for us not to mention the software tools coming down the line. As far as the washer it did not come with one so i never put it on :).
http://96.9.54.101/liquidguitars.com/assets/images/NewTruck.jpg
Steven Alford
05-01-2009, 01:03 PM
LHR is working hard for us not to mention the software tools coming down the line.
What software tools would those be??
liquidguitars
05-01-2009, 01:13 PM
I have a feeling that STL will be a option soon based on a older post in the education directory, this will mean that you could not need to buy a expensive program like Zbrush to import simple DXF.s or STL wire frame models.
LG
Steven Alford
05-01-2009, 02:04 PM
I have been hearing a lot about this STL, can someone elaborate on what this is?
I have been hearing a lot about this STL, can someone elaborate on what this is?
A STL file is a popular file format that most all CAD programs allows you to save a file in.
Simply explained, a stl file is a format used by Stereolithography software to generate information needed to produce 3D models on Stereolithography machines. In fact, the extension "stl" is said to be derived from the word "Stereolithography."
Steven Alford
05-01-2009, 02:17 PM
Thanks.
Do we not have to buy some kind of software that would deal with these files? Besides what they do to Our Designer software. Or do we locate these files somewhere on the internet and upload them to Designer (when the time comes)?
Thanks.
Do we not have to buy some kind of software that would deal with these files? Besides what they do to Our Designer software. Or do we locate these files somewhere on the internet and upload them to Designer (when the time comes)?
Steve
The cad file would have to come a purchased program like autocad but there are a lot of cad programs out there.
It will be the big question as if LHR will include it in designer for free or if they will offer it as a option. I like everyone else I would prefer the earlier of the two.
Pratyeka
05-01-2009, 03:45 PM
I will answer the question about the 1/4" sleeve and the risk of slippage.
I have run the machine with the carving bit on a 16hrs project, carving 4 plaques 14" X 8" on red oak .75 thick. I left the machine unattended for two sessions of 8hrs each. My dust collection system is not leaving any dust inside and the soundproof enclosure reduces the noise enough to let it run in my garage late at night without being heard by my neighbour (our houses share a wall).
There was no slippage, none, zilch, nada...
Again, as I have said before, the locking screw applies pressure to a wedge, which presses against the shank of the bit, or the sleeve in the case of the 1/4 bit. The pressure can be several tons at the point of contact, yes, no kidding. That is why this kind of coupling is used in joining ballscrews to motor shafts in numerous machines. It will not come loose, does not need loctite, lockwasher or locking gadget of any kind.
The chuck itself is one solid piece of metal and is balanced.(once you remove the mounting nut). It is simplicity itself.
One thing to pay attention to is when you use bits with a short shank, like 1", you need only to insert the shank about 1/2". That is to avoid getting Z axis errors because the head can't go down enough. I have made carvings at .8" deep this way and still the bit did not slip or shift.
Make sure to order several 1/4" sleeves as the locking wedge will put a dent in it, and the sleeve may become unuseable with time. Rotate the sleeve when the dent gets too deep in one spot. You could probably make your own sleeves if you have access to a lathe.
I haven't made anymore videos because of busy schedule. I have promised to make one showing the bit changes and will do it during my vacation in a couple of weeks. I'm still waiting for my new camera, they will hit the stores around here only next week, it's that new (Canon Powershot SX 200 SI).
I'm leaving for a week on Sunday night and won't have access to internet. So don't expect any immediate answers after this Sunday.
To all those who have replicated my mod and posted about it, thank you for proving me right. I bet you don't miss doing the "blowing, brushing, oiling, picking, wiping of the chuck between bit change dance"...:D
More carving, less maintenance.
Digitalwoodshop
05-01-2009, 03:46 PM
If you look at the Z Truck, a resourceful Builder like RJustice could take Sheet Stock and drill 4 holes for the rear bearing and tap another in the back to hold the Z Belt.
Now you have a Flat Bed Z Truck... You then make a shaft like is on the Business end of a Router. You attach 2 or 3 Pillow Blocks to hold the shaft to the Flat Bed Truck using a combination of high speed radial and something to deal with the movement along it's length. A End bearing and something to interface with the Top Cap and your in business...
Looks good on PAPER.... But in a Machine Shop.... Well that is out of my Leauge...
Brother could do it... He was A MR2 or Machinery Repairmen Second Class making parts for Subs in Norfolk before he went Officer in the 80's... They made hundreds of Pump shafts....
AL
Pratyeka
05-01-2009, 03:54 PM
If you look at the Z Truck, a resourceful Builder like RJustice could take Sheet Stock and drill 4 holes for the rear bearing and tap another in the back to hold the Z Belt.
Now you have a Flat Bed Z Truck... You then make a shaft like is on the Business end of a Router. You attach 2 or 3 Pillow Blocks to hold the shaft to the Flat Bed Truck using a combination of high speed radial and something to deal with the movement along it's length. A End bearing and something to interface with the Top Cap and your in business...
Looks good on PAPER.... But in a Machine Shop.... Well that is out of my Leauge...
Brother could do it... He was A MR2 or Machinery Repairmen Second Class making parts for Subs in Norfolk before he went Officer in the 80's... They made hundreds of Pump shafts....
AL
I think the weight could be a factor, those pillow blocks are heavy, and the Z motor might strain too much when moving the truck up.. Also the Z-axis center of rotation must be aligned to the Y-axis or the bit may miss the touch plate, or offset the carve on the wood.
Digitalwoodshop
05-01-2009, 06:31 PM
That picture was meant to show the concept, I picked the picture of the heavy duty version. I don't believe the heavy bearing is rated for high speed either. The position or location in the Y Axis is something that has ZERO tolerance and must be right on.
But you have a point, if you changed the chuck to this modification then there is no need to make a new truck.
I am sold on this idea of the replacement coupler and 1/4 inch bushings.
It's like deciding to buy Carving Bits from a different manufacture and not buying them from LHR.
Nothing to get sore about in my opinion, it is just another choice like a Big Mac or a Wopper...
AL
Hey Al
While we are the proprietary issue maybe we could ask for USB flash drive or wireless adapter to transfer files or maybe just let us use their USB port on the machine and our flash drive. PCMCIA reader just sucks! If you are going to dream you may as well have a good one.
Digitalwoodshop
05-01-2009, 07:10 PM
Wireless could be COOL... My Wood Shop is about 20 feet away, the Router works that distance, even a D Link setup card.... Something that just plugs into the slot with a RF Link on-board.
Great idea...
AL
liquidguitars
05-01-2009, 08:01 PM
ICarve. sounds like a good I phone app. Bluetooth to Carvewright.
LG
Woodpecker
05-01-2009, 08:29 PM
Whatever helps. Let's get it CW.
You have fantastic machine and any offers to make it better should be accepted.
Thanks!
Has anyone noticed that this tread is getting shorter by the hour
I am going to make this very short. If any of you want to see some improvement in your CW machine this is the time and place to do it. If you want to see some improvements and you are setting on your hands lift them up and put them on the keyboard because it is not going to happen without your help.
Digitalwoodshop
05-02-2009, 10:43 PM
I am sold on the idea and will be purchasing the Eliminator Chuck. I think it is a Win Win situation for me and LHR. A new tight QC sounds like a 3/8 inch drill in operation. My worn and in need of replacement QC sounds like a orbital sander... The BB marks are just starting to forum.
I am looking forward to the change.
AL
SteveEJ
05-02-2009, 10:46 PM
ICarve. sounds like a good I phone app. Bluetooth to Carvewright.
LG
How about a WoodBerry app for the BlackBerry? I'd be willing to learn Java for that! haha
Steve
Oh.. Since my post was deleted I decided to ignore what I said in it..I am happier trying to think of ways to make things better anyway!:cool:
al2888dj
05-02-2009, 10:57 PM
I am sold on the idea and will be purchasing the Eliminator Chuck , sounds great let us know when
chebytrk
05-02-2009, 11:01 PM
Was a decision ever made on the price? If it's not too high, you can count me in for one too!
I am starting to fill a little better now if the rest could just come forward. I want to thank you guys for you support. I still don't know how these post disappear. Maybe it is the disappearing pixels virus. You don't think the sever was getting full and they had to make room. Whatever it was there must have been a good reason for it to happen.
Was a decision ever made on the price? If it's not too high, you can count me in for one too!
The first thing is Joe has to have enough people to call him before it is confident that there is enough people interested. That is why you need to call him. I have been sending out 2 or 3 request daily to other members requesting his phone number.
Kenm810
05-03-2009, 08:09 AM
Hi PCW,
I just sent you a pm requesting Joe's number so I can give him a call.
I really like to buy and try any new products or ideas on my machine.
Thanks for the info
Digitalwoodshop
05-03-2009, 08:33 AM
So I called JOE..... I left a message being it is a Sunday and only insane guys like me are working....
I take it that Joe could make a threaded version that would attach or screw right to the Z Truck?... That would be an improvement to the JB Weld.
I LIKE IT !!!!
AL
Pratyeka
05-03-2009, 08:37 AM
The first thing is Joe has to have enough people to call him before it is confident that there is enough people interested. That is why you need to call him. I have been sending out 2 or 3 request daily to other members requesting his phone number.
Could you ask Joe how much per unit he would charge if he gets a firm order for 25 units? 50? 100?
If one of us buys in bulk and then resells them, this might be the fastest way to get these units done... What do you guys think?
Al
I have a strong feeling that Joe is either in Church or Working. What the heck would we ever do without JB Weld. Everything has a time an place.
Could you ask Joe how much per unit he would charge if he gets a firm order for 25 units? 50? 100?
If one of us buys in bulk and then resells them, this might be the fastest way to get these units done... What do you guys think?
To make the disturbion easier I would be willing to put up my money for 100 pieces and sell them to the members at cost plus $4.85 Priority shipping. If I can get 50 people stating here that they will take one.
I would want two free chucks for testing purpose first from Joe and then would designate LG & Digitalwoodshop for this purpose that is if all will agree including Joe. I think that they would give us a fair review of their findings. I would not want anyone here to purchase one from me or anyone to they signed off on it.
I will call Joe and stress that I don't want no heel dragging getting them in out. If you talk to him first let him know that I will be giving him a call.
In closing I want everyone know up front that Joe did mention that he would not be liaible for the modifaction incase of ingury just because it is a modifacation. If they work as expected then they could be made rather than modified.
rjustice
05-03-2009, 09:49 AM
Something to consider is that if you JB-weld into the spindle nose that is the only thing that is precision to the rotation of the spindle. The threads on the outside run out slightly. If i understand correctly you will get one shot to get this running true, and once it hardens, it is pretty much a permantent fixture. Is this correct? You will not be able to go back to the QC or try any other option due to this surface being JB-welded up, and will have to replace the spindle shaft to do so... Is this correct?
Ron
I think that was a private joke about a post that was victim of mod privilege just disappeared vanished into the air.
Here is your change as well if you want to get in on this. I would say that you should supply 2 samples to the testers for a review.
rjustice
05-03-2009, 10:26 AM
Ron
I think that was a private joke about a post that was victim of mod privilege just disappeared vanished into the air.
Here is your change as well if you want to get in on this. I would say that you should supply 2 samples to the testers for a review.
I admit that I feel like i have a better "mousetrap" as i have done much testing and prototyping myself. The reason they are not available to buy right now is because i would never send anything out to the public that i didnt beleive to be a solid solution. Everything I have developed and designed, has been in an effort to not modify the machine for both integrity of the original machine, as well as for "Warranty" purposes. If LG and Al would like to test a couple I am open to that. Thanks for suggesting this idea.
PS... I was out in the shop so i didnt see the post that got deleted. I have always tried to conduct myself properly, and it wasnt one of mine... So im not sure who's or what it said, and i guess it doesnt matter...
Ron
That would be great. I would like to see your chuck in all honesty if you both had a equal rating on the design from the reviewers I would prefer you simply because you are a fellow machine owner and member.
Just so you are aware of the fact's parts of this tread has been lost for the last couple of days and has lost 33% of it mass.
If any of you happen to find it in your travels please show it the way home.
Pratyeka
05-03-2009, 11:20 AM
Something to consider is that if you JB-weld into the spindle nose that is the only thing that is precision to the rotation of the spindle. The threads on the outside run out slightly. If i understand correctly you will get one shot to get this running true, and once it hardens, it is pretty much a permantent fixture. Is this correct? You will not be able to go back to the QC or try any other option due to this surface being JB-welded up, and will have to replace the spindle shaft to do so... Is this correct?
If you are referring to the photo posted earlier in this thread showing a close-up of the RC chuck, the glue that you see is the overflow from inserting the RC chuck into the spindle. There is about 1" of Rc chucks' shank fitted snuggly inside the spindle. Mark1945 has made the shank about .001" bigger than I did and press-fitted his RC chuck into the spindle, thus obtaining even less runout. This process does not rely at all upon the thread in any way. So yes, this technique is permanent, the only way to revert back to QC is to replace the spindle.
Well, this is my last post for the next week, I'm off to the cabin to total rest.
Be good everyone and have fun carving.
SteveEJ
05-03-2009, 11:50 AM
To make the disturbion easier I would be willing to put up my money for 100 pieces and sell them to the members at cost plus $4.85 Priority shipping. If I can get 50 people stating here that they will take one.
I would want two free chucks for testing purpose first from Joe and then would designate LG & Digitalwoodshop for this purpose that is if all will agree including Joe. I think that they would give us a fair review of their findings. I would not want anyone here to purchase one from me or anyone to they signed off on it.
I will call Joe and stress that I don't want no heel dragging getting them in out. If you talk to him first let him know that I will be giving him a call.
In closing I want everyone know up front that Joe did mention that he would not be liaible for the modifaction incase of ingury just because it is a modifacation. If they work as expected then they could be made rather than modified.
PCW,
Put me down for 2..
Steve
Colleen_and_Mike
05-03-2009, 05:24 PM
PCW
I'll take 2 as well.
Colleen:)
To all interested member's of this forum
Al from Digitalworkshop has made two post today showing two different people that are willing to make the chucks to work on our Carvewright machine.
There is not going to be a need for a anyone to front money because both of the two vendors are able to accept credit card either directly or through PayPal. I myself am favoring Ron Justice due to the fact that he is one of us.
In the long run what is going to be a deciding factor is the price and the chucks comparable qualities. I know a lot of you are interested in the price and that I can not give you that right now so please be patient. Rather than giving out Joe's number right now I would rather wait till all of the information is in. There is no monetary interest involved at all for anyone other than the person making the chucks.
If you want to discuss this issue this tread is designed for that. The other two site below should be used for a hand count. This is the first time for anything like this here that I am aware of so please bare with us.
Please follow the two treads below for hand counts.
Joe is the Eliminator chuck inventor. In favor of Joe's (http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?t=11374)
Ron has been making replacement parts for the Carvewright for a long time and is a Carvewright owner/user/fellow member. In favor of Ron's (http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?t=11376)
luckettg
05-04-2009, 08:22 AM
And here I thought he was a smart businessman.:)
Greg
I have a bother in law that is a retired Seabee and in the honor guard in Mi name Jerry Asher. Do you know him?
luckettg
05-04-2009, 08:37 AM
No, sorry PCW. I moved up here from Texas in 1995, and left active duty in 1980 out of NMCB40 in Port Hueneme. Before that I was out of Gulfport. My guess is that your brother in law is in one of the reserve units here in Michigan? I did train some of them in the late 70s, but do not really remember due to CRS.
Greg
I have a bother in law that is a retired Seabee and in the honor guard in Mi name Jerry Asher. Do you know him?
Billions
05-05-2009, 05:32 PM
I have yet to see a true root cause analysis to show anything other than user error/dirty machine as the weak link.
Rob
However, that's part of the problem that could be solved too: it's very easy for the QC problems to occur, even with cleaning. If destroying QCs can be minimized with a different design from the company, lessening the potential for user-error, that's even better. There is no shame in improvement.
This is an interesting turn of events, I want to see where this leads.
roughcut
05-05-2009, 06:29 PM
Is anyone in touch with Joe ? Has he recieved enough inquiries to justifie making the elimiter chuck fit the CW ?
Looks like he could just make an adapter like a pipe reducer threaded on the inside to fit the CW and outside to fit the elimiter.
TWOATLOW8
05-05-2009, 06:44 PM
Yes i would also like to hear from someone who talked to him..
Hi All
I have had a couple of conversations with Joe from Eliminator Chucks and at this time I do not want to get into the details. What I would like to do is give Ron Justice some time to give us some more information on option 2 (quick change style) as well as the pricing on his line of chucks. I wish I could tell you more but it is not in the best interest for anyone at this time to do so.
I am still in hopes that LHR Technologies will jump in here with a announcement of a soon to be released chuck. We can not count them out of the picture because I think they know there is enough interest in a new chuck now and will offer a option in the future. It would be wrong to underestimate them because they have not got to this point by not being a aggressive company. I'm a poker player and I think they have a couple of Ace's in the whole.
Please look at the attachment from today I know they are paying attention.
22800
Digitalwoodshop
05-05-2009, 07:27 PM
I talked to him 3 times on Sunday. We left it that he was taking the Z Truck to his Engineer for design work. I think there has been enough interest shown that he will move forward to making the Eliminator for the CW. He told me that he must make 500 at a time and that is a big investment.
This is REAL Money with him.... 500 units and someone comes up with a better mouse trap then he is stuck.... I tried to reassure him that it was a proven design used on Routers with no problem and adapting it to the CW was Money in the Bank.. But at the end of the day he is holding all the risk...
Like RJustice who as asked NOTHING from US.... And has been moving forward with his projects taking all the risk.
Both designs are going to be a better holder of the bits than the QC.
Both designs are weeks away, but I bet RJustice makes it to market first.
AL
rjustice
05-05-2009, 08:53 PM
I talked to him 3 times on Sunday. We left it that he was taking the Z Truck to his Engineer for design work. I think there has been enough interest shown that he will move forward to making the Eliminator for the CW. He told me that he must make 500 at a time and that is a big investment.
This is REAL Money with him.... 500 units and someone comes up with a better mouse trap then he is stuck.... I tried to reassure him that it was a proven design used on Routers with no problem and adapting it to the CW was Money in the Bank.. But at the end of the day he is holding all the risk...
Like RJustice who as asked NOTHING from US.... And has been moving forward with his projects taking all the risk.
Both designs are going to be a better holder of the bits than the QC.
Both designs are weeks away, but I bet RJustice makes it to market first.
AL
Hi AL,
I am hoping you are correct... worked till about 2 AM last night, and just ran out of steam, and came in tonight. I am still looking good for next Tuesday.
Ron
Steven Alford
05-06-2009, 02:37 PM
You forgot to close it!!!
atauer
05-06-2009, 02:54 PM
It was re-opened to let the discussion continue. No problem with discussions. Let's just not advertise anyone's personal info or anything.
Digitalwoodshop
05-06-2009, 03:03 PM
THANK YOU !!!
I really did cross the line with the other posts...
LHR has been very Tolerant with this topic.
AL
TWOATLOW8
05-06-2009, 04:56 PM
Wonder why they opened it back up ? someones going fishing
Thank You very much for allowing the topic to continue. It shows the member's here that LHR is a company that we can always count on no matter what.
Digitalwoodshop
05-06-2009, 06:50 PM
If we all play nice here remembering we are all "Guests" here in this unique environment that lets us freely share ideas, questions, answers, projects, innovation, and complements.
A Carving Community with LHR, Techs, Wanna BE Techs like ME, and others sharing our experience.
All this posting has shown an interest in a new accessory and that was the intent. As more info is developed then it will be posted within the guidelines of being a Guest and respecting our Host.
We are weeks away from roll out.
AL
I talked to him 3 times on Sunday. We left it that he was taking the Z Truck to his Engineer for design work. I think there has been enough interest shown that he will move forward to making the Eliminator for the CW. He told me that he must make 500 at a time and that is a big investment.
This is REAL Money with him.... 500 units and someone comes up with a better mouse trap then he is stuck.... I tried to reassure him that it was a proven design used on Routers with no problem and adapting it to the CW was Money in the Bank.. But at the end of the day he is holding all the risk...
AL
Al,
Been a while since I've had a chance to pop into the forum as I've been more than busy at my day job, along with other projects at home. Kills me that I can't dabble with the CW...
Happened to stumble into the discussions about the Eliminator tonight. I actually had some correspondence with the European division of Woodrat and chatted with Joe a few months back after Pratyeka's modification, and am obviously interested in acquiring one if it becomes available.
Believe it or not, I was planning on calling Joe in the near future to determine if LHR ever expressed interest, otherwise would be willing to invest some capital if that would help spur things along, and subsequently share some of the risk with Joe. (Knowing that there are ~10K+ machines sold to date, and that the QC failures are a matter of "when", not "if", there's little doubt in my mind that 500+ eliminators will eventually sell).
It is not my intent to undermine LHR, but at the same time, the opportunity has presented itself to LHR. My angst, on behalf of LHR, lies with the uneasy feeling that sales on the CW have likely slowed due to initial market saturation and the recession, prompting an apparent move to expand into education and the box stores. Very smart moves. The initial market are the likes of us, hobbyists and enthusiasts, so we're willing to tolerate the foibles of the CW. I'm not so sure that the education and box market sectors will be as forgiving, adding to the support demands, and thus my belief for a more robust chuck. Having alternative accessories (in this case, the chuck) will strengthen the core product, even if not endorsed by LHR. After all, the CW is the product that LHR is selling, not the QC. So again, the win-win-win (LHR, Woodrat, and customer) would be to have LHR re-sell the Eliminator as an alternative at a reasonable premium, contributing to their revenue stream. If this arrangement is prohibitive for one reason or another, although LHR will not profit from sales of a QC alternative, believe they will benefit from additional sales to their core product in the long run...
R, Jon
Digitalwoodshop
05-06-2009, 09:52 PM
Some very good thoughts. Yes, I believe this is a Win Win for everyone. Sales will be UP....
Speaking of NEW Markets.... I am hoping my use of the machine to cut plastic name tag plastic with a soon to be built vacuum sled. That will open this machine up to Award Shops that could do a Walnut Plaque with V Text. Then with the Vacuum Sled cut 12 x 24 sheets of stock into any size tag. Sure, some have Rotary Engravers that will cut tags, but like me, it's only 9 x 12 inches more suited to pre cut tags.
Sublimation FRP (Fiber Re-enforced Plastic) name tags are normally cut using a Shop Bot or similar tool, turning sheet stock into name tags. My problem is that the 1.5 x 3 and 2 x 4 Tags only come in one sided and I need to cut sheet stock for 2 sided. Plus the unlimited number of shapes you can cut.
I had a request for Pool Pass Tags last year with the Epoxy dome, couldn't cut them. Now I can... Progress...
The County Fair Wood Fire Department Competition Trophies I did last summer resulted in my getting the Trophy Job for a Fire Dept / Car Show. They want WOOD.... Something DIFFERENT....
Developing the new markets for the machine through innovation and a big network of Award Shops and Engravers on two other forums I visit daily, Sawmill Creek and Engraving Etc.
OK... 11 PM... Finished painting some CarveWright Signs time to QUIT for the night....
AL
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