Sled for cutting out parts

[hobbycentral]

I've bought a machine and read the articles on sleds etc.. I want to cut model parts out of balsa sheets that are 24x4x1/16, 24x4x1/8 and 24x4x1/4. Instead of building a sled, would it be reasonable to use a board 32x12x 1/2 and have the machine carve out two rectangular pockets that are dimensioned to fit the two balsa sheets side by side? I want to cut out the parts and so I have a few more questions:

1. Due to the sled, from what I have read I believe I cannot use the cut path tool and will have to cut them out using a routed line and create my own tabs. Is this correct?

2. As I will be cutting out the boards, what do I need to place under the project or do you allow it to cut the sled if necessary?

Thanks
Bill
Hobby Central

[mtylerfl]

...
1. Due to the sled, from what I have read I believe I cannot use the cut path tool and will have to cut them out using a routed line and create my own tabs. Is this correct?

2. As I will be cutting out the boards, what do I need to place under the project or do you allow it to cut the sled if necessary?

Thanks
Bill
Hobby Central

Hello Bill,

1) Not true - read the Tips & Tricks - ISSUE 12 September 2008
"Designer 1.131 New Feature Highlights " (http://www.carvebuddy.com/PDFs/CW_TipsandTricks_Newsletters/CarveWrightTips&Tricks_Sept08.pdf)

2) Nothing needs to be placed between the project and your sled

[Digitalwoodshop]

There is some good info in the Tips and Tricks about Sleds and Carrier Boards.

You can do a Cut Path of thin material on a carrier board or sled. You just tell the machine via the board dimensions that it is 1/8 of and inch thick.

I am making a carrier board to cut 12 x 24 sheets of Engraving Stock into tags using a carrier board. Rather than cut into the board with squares like you mentioned, I am placing strips of material 1 inch wide on each side of the 12 x 24 piece and just use masking tape to hold the sheet. I would use Tabs to hold the cut pieces with that setup.

OR you can bend slightly up or down the Bit Flag as it is different in every machine from the bits hitting it all the time. Most of the time they are bent down resulting in your sled being cut into slightly like the one in the picture that was cutting Xmas Ornaments from scrap 4 inch pieces.

I am also working on the same version using a FAT MAT that is a Sticky Mat that is refreshed with water that engravers use.

I am also working on a Vacuum Sled using the same design but grooves cut into the board and a vacuum machine hooked to it. It would have 2 or 3 vacuum holes in the center of each tag. Making a separate table for each size tag I cut 1.5 x 3, 1.5 x 4, 2x3.

Remember you will need to do some test cuts to dial in the board thickness as the bit touching the bit flag is critical and you will need to adjust the board thickness in designer slightly using the board settings in designer to get the right depth of cut with tabs. Normally the bit touches the right side guide to determine board thickness when cutting a cut path without a sled.

Good Luck and please post pictures.

AL

[Darthmaul1964]

Al,
When using a sled or carrier board, do you have to add the thickness of it to your work piece when you enter the board thickness in designer? For example, if I am cutting in plexi that is 1/8" thick and its sitting on a 3/4" carrier, would I put in 7/8" for board thickness in Designer?

[liquidguitars]

1. Due to the sled, from what I have read I believe I cannot use the cut path tool and will have to cut them out using a routed line and create my own tabs. Is this correct?

For a long time the auto tabs/cut path just did not work with sleds. One would have to set in points and out points in the manual cut paths like you said. 1.134 has fixed this issue now.

If you use a sled and you need the auto tabs " I only need auto tabs about once in a blue moon" you just
set the thickness to the wood size of the stock.

if you have a sled with a thickness of 1 1/2 tall and a board that .75" set designer for .75" and your tabs will work.

As a side note. One of the big draw back for using cut path is you can only have one thickness for all parts in a sled.

if you are designing a multi sled to hold more that one raster path of different depths your out of luck and by
changing the depth of your project Designer will also need to remove important information of old paths locking you out. :mad:


Instead of building a sled, would it be reasonable to use a board 32x12x 1/2 and have the machine carve out two rectangular pockets that are dimensioned to fit the two balsa sheets side by side?

that's a sled, and good way of doing it. if the pockets are two big" 3/8 bit will take a long time to rout over 32" long, just use thin wood and run the sled in a thickness sander to finish. also I would use .75" thick sled "bottom" so you can screw your work in palce. .50" is to thin for production.


LG

[Darthmaul1964]

You are being more project specific that I am. In general, do you put in the combined thickness of sled and work peice or just the work peice alone when setting up your board in Designer.

[liquidguitars]

You are being more project specific that I am. In general, do you put in the combined thickness of sled and work peice or just the work peice alone when setting up your board in Designer.

responding to Hobby Central


if you have a sled with a thickness of 1 1/2 tall and a board that .75" set designer for .75" and your tabs will work.

from my last post.


Designer thicknes same as wood in sled for cut path to work.. if you do not use "cut path" any thickness works as the work is indexed from the top as it should be.

LG

[mtylerfl]

You are being more project specific that I am. In general, do you put in the combined thickness of sled and work peice or just the work peice alone when setting up your board in Designer.


Not wanting to offend you...if you would read the Tips & Tricks - ISSUE 12 September 2008 "Designer 1.131 New Feature Highlights " (http://www.carvebuddy.com/PDFs/CW_TipsandTricks_Newsletters/CarveWrightTips&Tricks_Sept08.pdf)
you would already know the answer!

When using the cut path feature, you enter the stock thickness only during layout, then at the machine, you will be prompted to use either the measured thickness or the Project thickness - of course, you choose "Project" so the bit won't try to cut all the way through both your stock and the sled. (By the way - the feature of doing cutouts on a sled using the automatic cutpaths has always worked fine since version 1.131 was released about 8 months ago!)

Read the Tips - you might find out all kinds of cool stuff!

[liquidguitars]

the feature of doing cutouts on a sled using the automatic cutpaths has always worked fine since version 1.131 was released about 8 months ago!)

1.131 had some issues if i think back... but for sure 1.134 works now.

LG

[mtylerfl]

1.131 had some issues if i think back... but for sure 1.134 works now.

LG


Nope...1.131 cutpaths and the feedrates for cutpaths has always been fine. You're thinking of manual cutpath feed rates that had an issue under some circumstances, in which case that was corrected in 1.134.;)

[liquidguitars]

Nope...1.131 cutpaths and the feedrates for cutpaths has always been fine. You're thinking of manual cutpath feed rates that had an issue under some circumstances, in which case that was corrected in 1.134.

I was talking about issue with using sleds and locatin the bit on the bit plate.. hitting "project" on the keypad sometimes did not fix the bit index. Not a big prob overall compaired to having designer choose how thick/deep all cut outs need to be. :o

LG

[mtylerfl]

I was talking about issue with using sleds and locatin the bit on the bit plate.. hitting "project" on the keypad sometimes did not fix the bit index. Not a big prob overall compaired to having designer choose how thick/deep all cut outs need to be. :o

LG

Thanks, LG. I was not aware of that issue.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Al,
When using a sled or carrier board, do you have to add the thickness of it to your work piece when you enter the board thickness in designer? For example, if I am cutting in plexi that is 1/8" thick and its sitting on a 3/4" carrier, would I put in 7/8" for board thickness in Designer?

I believe it is putting 1/8 in the Designer board Thickness.

AL

[Darthmaul1964]

[QUOTE=mtylerfl;88603]Not wanting to offend you...if you would read the Tips & Tricks - ISSUE 12 September 2008 "Designer 1.131 New Feature Highlights " (http://www.carvebuddy.com/PDFs/CW_TipsandTricks_Newsletters/CarveWrightTips&Tricks_Sept08.pdf)
you would already know the answer!

Well, that is why I asked the question on the Forum. Since I have only had my CC a short time and on the Forum for even less time...I didn't know about the Tips and Tricks resource. I thought that was what the forum was for, to ask questions so others with more experience could guide you to available resources.

I just looked through the link you sent and it still did not answer the question I was asking. I am not talking about settings in the cut path. I am talking about when you open a new project in designer and it asks you for board dimensions... Should the tickness entered there be that of your actual work piece or the piece and the sled combined. I am assuming that the CC knows how thick the board you installed is by this information but I want to be sure.

[mtylerfl]

[quote=mtylerfl;88603]Not wanting to offend you...if you would read the Tips & Tricks - ISSUE 12 September 2008 "Designer 1.131 New Feature Highlights " (http://www.carvebuddy.com/PDFs/CW_TipsandTricks_Newsletters/CarveWrightTips&Tricks_Sept08.pdf)
you would already know the answer!

Well, that is why I asked the question on the Forum. Since I have only had my CC a short time and on the Forum for even less time...I didn't know about the Tips and Tricks resource. I thought that was what the forum was for, to ask questions so others with more experience could guide you to available resources.

Hello,

You are absolutely correct that forum is your best "first line of defense" for answers to your questions. We are very happy to have you here, and I would like to extend a "welcome"! You will enjoy the handy Search feature as most every common question has been asked and answered dozens of times (sometimes that actually makes it HARDER to find a specific answer though, so feel free to post a question if you cannot locate an answer via Search!)

In the box that your machine came in, there is supposed to be a sheet of paper that alerts you to the various CarveWright/CompuCarve resources (such as this forum and the Tips & Tricks).

May I ask if you did not receive that? If not, please let us know where you purchased the machine and we'll see what can be done about getting the info sheets into those boxes for other purchasers in the future.

You can sign up for the free monthly Tips by visiting the CarveWright homepage. On the right side of the screen and a little way down, you will see a "Join Our Mailing List" form. Just fill in the form and you will start receiving the monthly Tips automatically via email.

In the meantime, there are two past issues that you will want to be sure to read, especially since you are brand new to the machine...- ISSUE 3 December 2007 "Handy Tips for Everyone!" (http://www.carvebuddy.com/PDFs/CW_TipsandTricks_Newsletters/CarveWrightTips&Tricks_Dec07.pdf) and - ISSUE 4 January 2008
"An Easy Project Tutorial & The Care and Feeding of Your CarveWright/ CompuCarve™ Machine" (http://www.carvebuddy.com/PDFs/CW_TipsandTricks_Newsletters/CarveWrightTips&Tricks_Jan08.pdf)

I think you'll enjoy the quick read and they will help you avoid common newcomer errors and also teach you how to maintain and lube your machine. You can download any and all the back-issues by clicking on the link below my signature.

All the Best...

[Darthmaul1964]

[quote=Darthmaul1964;88656]

In the box that your machine came in, there is supposed to be a sheet of paper that alerts you to the various CarveWright/CompuCarve resources (such as this forum and the Tips & Tricks).

May I ask if you did not receive that? If not, please let us know where you purchased the machine and we'll see what can be done about getting the info sheets into those boxes for other purchasers in the future.


I have a CompuCarve that was Purchased online from Sears.com. If that sheet was in the box, it has been misplaced as I don't see it with the book/manual that came with the machine.

Thank you for the info on finding posts. I have used the search a few times but have often gotten no results because the word(s) in my search are too short. Kind of hard to find info on Z Axis when it won't accpt short words. Unless I am just doing something wrong.

Also, thanks for the Tips & Tricks resources.

Noticed something from another posting talking about searching usin " " so I tried that and see that you can find short terms then. Strange feature.

[mtylerfl]

Hello,

To search using short words, you can put quotation marks at both ends of the word or phrase and that should allow the search to take place.

[Darthmaul1964]

Thanks Mike,
I was posting an update on that very subject and saw you posted about it when I was done posting.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthmaul1964
Al,
When using a sled or carrier board, do you have to add the thickness of it to your work piece when you enter the board thickness in designer? For example, if I am cutting in plexi that is 1/8" thick and its sitting on a 3/4" carrier, would I put in 7/8" for board thickness in Designer?

I believe it is putting 1/8 in the Designer board Thickness.

AL

You may need to play with the thickness slightly using a cut path on a board as machine mechanical error can cause the bit to cut too deep or too shallow. This is caused by the Bit Flag, it can bend up and down slightly but normally does not come in to effect. A Normal cut path has the right side guide that it touches to tell it corrections.

This can or could all change depending on what version of Designer you use but I just wanted you to be aware of the possibility of cutting into your board, don't be alarmed....

See my picture where I was cutting Bears and Christmas Ornaments from my collection of 4 inch wood cut off's.

Posting at the same time happens often here..... A Question is like a Cracker thrown into a pond and we like FISH rush to be the first to answer...

AL

[hobbycentral]

I originally created this post because I did read the the "tips & tricks" as suggested. May 08 Tips & Tricks: "You already know that the machine will actually think the stock is ¾” thick because it will measure the thickness of both the stock and the sled and combine
them (i.e., ¼” + ½” = ¾”). However, you want to be able to see your actual project board thickness as you lay out a design, thus, the ¼” is what you want to specify in the Designer software. If you used the normal cut path feature, the machine will not leave the safety tabs on the ¼” stock. Since the machine thinks the stock is ¾” thick, it will cut all the way through both the stock and the sled, leaving safety tabs on the bottom of the sled!" This led me to believe that I could not use the the cut path tool. But, as Al and others mentioned, this is no longer the case. So, I am glad that I asked. The web is littered with horror stories about these machines and I believe that most could have been prevented by asking a few questions. Everyone here has been extremely helpful and so have the support staff at LHR. So far this has been a great experience.

Thanks
Bill
Hobby Central

[liquidguitars]

I think a lot of this "how thick?" could be solved by indexing like with manual paths. Sure it's fine if your not using a sled at all and you know how thick your board is..

when it comes to designing and making sleds it can be chore to get the bottom in line with the top using cut path.

Add one more raster path of a thicker part or even a 1/2 "deep ball and the software controls your next decision. END OF LINE

I think where cut path is sweet for what i have noticed is for small logo work in plastic and would love to see it cary over to manual paths soon or set a depth per path option for power users as i could use that today.

LG

[mtylerfl]

I originally created this post because I did read the the "tips & tricks" as suggested. May 08 Tips & Tricks: "You already know that the machine will actually think the stock is ¾” thick because it will measure the thickness of both the stock and the sled and combine
them (i.e., ¼” + ½” = ¾”). However, you want to be able to see your actual project board thickness as you lay out a design, thus, the ¼” is what you want to specify in the Designer software. If you used the normal cut path feature, the machine will not leave the safety tabs on the ¼” stock. Since the machine thinks the stock is ¾” thick, it will cut all the way through both the stock and the sled, leaving safety tabs on the bottom of the sled!" This led me to believe that I could not use the the cut path tool. But, as Al and others mentioned, this is no longer the case. So, I am glad that I asked. The web is littered with horror stories about these machines and I believe that most could have been prevented by asking a few questions. Everyone here has been extremely helpful and so have the support staff at LHR. So far this has been a great experience.

Thanks
Bill
Hobby Central

Hello Bill,

Yes, it can be confusing since that particular issue of the Tips does not necessarily apply fully now. There are occasions when manual cutpaths are necessary, but for most folks, this is very rare. For manual cutpath creation, some of the methods described can still apply in those unusual cases. (For example, my Sailboat Project I designed for LHR required manual cutpaths.)

When the new cut path control feature was introduced in version 1.131, it was a major breakthrough for the LHR developers and the users. This new feature allowed us for the first time to use the automatic cutpath feature whether using a sled or not. It solved the "problem" of doing cutouts on sleds and it has made many project layouts much, much easier to accomplish. There are some folks who still have not fully grasped this new feature even after all this time, but a careful read of Tips issue #12 and going through the included tutorials should clarify this for anyone who is still a little foggy on the procedure.

The chronology of the Tips & Tricks is pretty important to follow. As new features are added, the Tips & Tricks are written to reflect the "new & improved" ways of doing things. I work pretty closely with LHR on many of these topics and we do our best to keep users educated and up-to-date as the software evolves.

[liquidguitars]

Yes, it can be confusing since that particular issue of the Tips does not necessarily apply fully now. There are occasions when manual cutpaths are necessary, but for most folks, this is very rare.

MT would like to think he talks for most folks here. This statment show that he does not have a clue. "very rare" ?? people use manual paths all day long 360 days a year. same old BS just a new day with this rhetoric statement.

like designing a music program but no need for 1/2 notes. I do not understand this thinking at all. I have worked with a ton of software
and never ran across this type of "I do not use this tool so you do not need to" not very inpressive.


I guessing you do not use sleds much MT as to this topic at hand. Like i said cut path did not work 100% in my testing with 1.113.



Here is a image showing cutpath "project" board thickness settings for parts of .125" thick typ

http://96.9.54.101/liquidguitars.com/assets/images/SledCpath.jpg




LG

[HighTechOkie]

Geez LG, normally you are very helpfull. Has the Mrs. been gone for awhile or something? Someone sounds like they have some pent up frustrations that need addressed. No need for the personal attack just because you don't agree with them.


MT would like to think he talks for most folks here. This statment show that he does not have a clue. "very rare" ?? people use manual paths all day long 360 days a year. same old BS just a new day with this rhetoric statement.

Michael is talking about manual CUTpaths, as in cutting a part out, not just carving away (aka Carve Region). With the latest version of the software, there is rarely a case for the average user to need to manually create the path, add tabs, set bit depth etc. However, should you need to create your own cutpath, you can define a max depth per pass in the bit assignment screen.


like designing a music program but no need for 1/2 notes. I do not understand this thinking at all. I have worked with a ton of software
and never ran across this type of "I do not use this tool so you do not need to" not very inpressive.

Bad analogy, as all the tools are there to create a manual cutpath if needed, as well as putting words in his mouth. Michael clearly stated that he occasionaly does need to create a manal cutpath. My impression is he is clarifying for a newbie that MOST situations, the cutpath tool will accomplish the job just fine. Manual cutpaths are more of an advanced topic and would only confuse someone just getting started with the machine. You are a more (most?) advanced user and tend to push the limits of what the machine is capable of, and for that you definitely have my kudos.


I guessing you do not use sleds much MT as to this topic at hand. Like i said cut path did not work 100% in my testing with 1.113.

They have released several new versions in the past 2 years. Try upgrading to v1.134 and see if that fixes your problems. :mrgreen:

Seriously though, how about detailing what it is that did not work? That would be much more productive for everyone involved.

And now for the only productive part of your post. You do make nice, simple graphics that get the point across.


Here is a image showing cutpath "project" board thickness settings for parts of .125" thick typ

http://96.9.54.101/liquidguitars.com/assets/images/SledCpath.jpg




LG

[liquidguitars]

you think that's bad wait until I find the person responsible for this! :)



LG

[AskBud]

you think that bad wait until I find the person responsible for this! :)

LG

Were you using the 1/8 or 1/16" bit?
AskBud

[liquidguitars]

The term very rare "A species that occurs in such low numbers that it is of minor importance". I see no corolation to this and manual paths.

Regarding manual paths it not up to the Tec writer to cauterize based on personal feeling.

Manual paths are at the same level or better for running parts on a sled IE this topic.

until new features are added in the menu like setting all depth for all paths separately this is the way it goes.

As a side point I not shure why MT is talking about manual paths anyway, we are talking about auto tabs/cut path in the thread .

LG

[DocWheeler]

Brandon,

Most of the posts on this thread seem to me to be addressing the issue of manually creating a cutpath with manually created tabs. In that light, I agree with Michael's statement that the need for us to do that is indeed RARE since the software can now do that for us.

I'm not sure what the problem really is here, but it seems to be one of some kind of misinterpretation rather than Michael's making a false statement.

[liquidguitars]

Brandon,

Most of the posts on this thread seem to me to be addressing the issue of manually creating a cut path with manually created tabs. In that light, I agree with Michael's statement that the need for us to do that is indeed RARE since the software can now do that for us.

I'm not sure what the problem really is here, but it seems to be one of some kind of misinterpretation rather than Michael's making a false statement.

question one:

1. Due to the sled, from what I have read I believe I cannot use the cut path tool and will have to cut them out using a routed line and create my own tabs. Is this correct?

MT


1) Not true - read the Tips & Tricks - ISSUE 12 September 2008
"Designer 1.131 New Feature Highlights "

question two:


Originally Posted by Darthmaul1964
Al,
When using a sled or carrier board, do you have to add the thickness of it to your work piece when you enter the board thickness in designer? For example, if I am cutting in plexi that is 1/8" thick and its sitting on a 3/4" carrier, would I put in 7/8" for board thickness in Designer?

Al,


You can do a Cut Path of thin material on a carrier board or sled. You just tell the machine via the board dimensions that it is 1/8 of and inch thick.


[quote=mtylerfl;88603]Not wanting to offend you...if you would read the Tips & Tricks - ISSUE 12 September 2008 "Designer 1.131 New Feature Highlights "
you would already know the answer!

Well, that is why I asked the question on the Forum. Since I have only had my CC a short time and on the Forum for even less time...I didn't know about the Tips and Tricks resource. I thought that was what the forum was for, to ask questions so others with more experience could guide you to available resources.

I just looked through the link you sent and it still did not answer the question I was asking. I am not talking about settings in the cut path. I am talking about when you open a new project in designer and it asks you for board dimensions... Should the thickness entered there be that of your actual work piece or the piece and the sled combined. I am assuming that the CC knows how thick the board you installed is by this information but I want to be sure.

People learn about complex things over time, I will read manuals a few time before i get it. Asking question this is why we are here not to over promote judge or assume ones ability's.

I would think that MT would have the in-site to understand that the software tools are designed to accomplish a job with no real greater value then what's needed to carve.

The story of a Russian carpenter building a Church with only one ax comes to mind.