Replacing the CW QC chuck with RC Eliminator Chuck [Archive]

Pratyeka

03-22-2009, 01:09 PM

Here is what I did to replace the original QC chuck with a modified RC Eliminator chuck.
The RC chuck use a screw and a wedge to hold the bits. It takes only 1/2 turn on the screw to unlock or lock the bit securely. 1/4" bit need a sleeve which you can order where they sell the RC chuck. I used the RC chuck for Bosch router. I do not know if the other type of RC chuck can be used.

The first step is to remove the QC chuck from the machine. A 7/8" flat wrench and a square bit is needed to unscrew the QC chuck. I use a 3" long .5" dia steel rod fitted in a 1/2" bit adaptor to heat up the QC chuck. Direct a short flame to the steel rod while slowly rotating the QC chuck by hand. Be patient. The heat will soften the threadlocker glue that prevents the chuck from loosening. Try to unscrew the chuck with the flat wrench and the square bit inserted in the same place the flex cable goes. Using a ratchet to hold the square bit, set the ratchet to unscrew (counter-clockwise looking from the top).

The RC Eliminator chuck has a nut and a conical shaft (much like a collet), so it won't fit into the machine's spindle as is. Saw off the nut with a hacksaw, careful not to scratch the shaft of the chuck. Once the nut is off, you have one solid piece of steel. Remove the locking screw and wedge.

With a lathe, remove just enough metal on the shaft to make it fit inside the CW spindle (around .536" dia, if I remember right, make sure you measure yours correctly). Precision is critical here, minimise runout as much as possible.

Make a bit stopper with a steel washer, same diameter as the RC shaft (see diagram) That will give a reference when you change bits for the machine to check the bit depth.

Once everything fits, apply metal epoxy and hold in place until glue sets. In my case, I arranged it so that I could monitor the runout as the glue was setting and make corrections.

That's it! Looks simple enough, but make sure you understand everything before proceeding. If you make a mistake or want to go back to the original QC chuck, you need to replace the spindle or the whole Z-truck assembly.

This mod has worked perfectly for me and at the time of this post I have 60hrs+ on it without a glitch. Bit changes take about 30 secs, without oiling nor cleaning.

here are the pics of the RC installed:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23054187@N08/3222087513/in/photostream/

Hope this helps.

Ike

03-22-2009, 04:50 PM

Here is what I did to replace the original QC chuck with a modified RC Eliminator chuck.
The RC chuck use a screw and a wedge to hold the bits. It takes only 1/2 turn on the screw to unlock or lock the bit securely. 1/4" bit need a sleeve which you can order where they sell the RC chuck. I used the RC chuck for Bosch router. I do not know if the other type of RC chuck can be used.

The first step is to remove the QC chuck from the machine. A 7/8" flat wrench and a square bit is needed to unscrew the QC chuck. I use a 3" long .5" dia steel rod fitted in a 1/2" bit adaptor to heat up the QC chuck. Direct a short flame to the steel rod while slowly rotating the QC chuck by hand. Be patient. The heat will soften the threadlocker glue that prevents the chuck from loosening. Try to unscrew the chuck with the flat wrench and the square bit inserted in the same place the flex cable goes. Using a ratchet to hold the square bit, set the ratchet to unscrew (counter-clockwise looking from the top).

The RC Eliminator chuck has a nut and a conical shaft (much like a collet), so it won't fit into the machine's spindle as is. Saw off the nut with a hacksaw, careful not to scratch the shaft of the chuck. Once the nut is off, you have one solid piece of steel. Remove the locking screw and wedge.

With a lathe, remove just enough metal on the shaft to make it fit inside the CW spindle (around .536" dia, if I remember right, make sure you measure yours correctly). Precision is critical here, minimise runout as much as possible.

Make a bit stopper with a steel washer, same diameter as the RC shaft (see diagram) That will give a reference when you change bits for the machine to check the bit depth.

Once everything fits, apply metal epoxy and hold in place until glue sets. In my case, I arranged it so that I could monitor the runout as the glue was setting and make corrections.

That's it! Looks simple enough, but make sure you understand everything before proceeding. If you make a mistake or want to go back to the original QC chuck, you need to replace the spindle or the whole Z-truck assembly.

This mod has worked perfectly for me and at the time of this post I have 60hrs+ on it without a glitch. Bit changes take about 30 secs, without oiling nor cleaning.

Hope this helps.

Sounds great, but we all do not have a metal lathe! Maybe you should contact LHR with your new QC. Now do you install the bits without the adapters then tighten the bit with the allen screw?

I was wondering if a normal router chuck could be used? It takes only seconds to change a bit and you know it is secure!

Please show some photos of your RC in your CW

Ike

liquidguitars

03-22-2009, 05:35 PM

Pratyeka

03-22-2009, 07:03 PM

Pratyeka thanks,

How far up is the washer in the shaft? I am wondering about the 1/4 ball's DOC placment to the truck. not sure if it realy matters or not..

Also running a 1/8" shank, do i just need the collets or is that to small of a bit.

LG

The washer is at the end of the RC shaft, about 1 inch from the bottom in this case. So any bit can only go up 1 inch into the RC chuck. Any bit diameter up to 1/2 inch can be fitted, as long as you have the adaptor sleeve. I won't call them collets because that is different. They are more like sleeve. Here is a pic:
http://www.thecraftsmangallery.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=W/PROD/RC/32-270
It would be possible to make a more precise sleeve and press-fit it on the bit
to achieve near 0 runout. I have .0045" runout on a 1/4" bit and .0015" on a 1/2" bit... very acceptable for wood, in my opinion...

I have not seen them selling a 1/8" adaptor sleeve though.

Pratyeka

03-22-2009, 07:08 PM

Sounds great, but we all do not have a metal lathe! Maybe you should contact LHR with your new QC. Now do you install the bits without the adapters then tighten the bit with the allen screw?

I was wondering if a normal router chuck could be used? It takes only seconds to change a bit and you know it is secure!

Please show some photos of your RC in your CW

Ike

I understand and wish I could buy dozens of RC chuck and modify them and re-sell them... but the installation is tricky. One way would be to order dozens of Z-chuck and do the mod, then re-sell them. Thing is I did the mod at work and don't have the tools at home. The best way would be for those who make the RC chuck to adapt it so we could just screw it on the CW spindle, or for CW to provide an alternative option when we order the machine.

I have added a link for the photos of the RC chuck installed as requested in the first post.

mgnagy

03-24-2009, 10:27 AM

Would you mind perhaps recording a video and uploading it to youtube so I can see this in action?

Too often things that appear too good to be true, are.

Pratyeka

03-24-2009, 03:05 PM

Would you mind perhaps recording a video and uploading it to youtube so I can see this in action?

Too often things that appear too good to be true, are.

I would not mind at all, in fact I was just considering this. I don't have a digital video camera, but my old digital still camera can record short video, so I'll give it a try. Will post the link on the forum. I have to make another of my Celtic Knot pattern so I can record at the beginning, middle and end of the project, that particular pattern takes over 6hrs carving time.

Would you like to see how the bit exchange works also? Just to prove that it's really easy with that setup :D

dragoncarver

03-25-2009, 07:27 PM

way to complicated for me i would have to buy tools i do not own I AM WAITING FOR QC hello when can i buy one :roll:

Rick P

03-25-2009, 11:23 PM

Pratyeka - I am hoping you will read post about QC Failure & Cure in Trouble Shooting and comment...

Pratyeka

03-26-2009, 08:59 AM

Pratyeka - I am hoping you will read post about QC Failure & Cure in Trouble Shooting and comment...

I did and commented, thanks.

As long as I am here, the lathe I have at work is a little marvel made by Sherline :http://www.sherline.com/4000pg.htm

I have been using this and their milling for more than 5 years now and made stuff like small bushings, jigs, machine parts, all with very little tolerances (+-.001") There are cheaper lathes and millings out there of course, but you get what you pay for.;)

mgnagy

03-27-2009, 03:05 PM

Would you like to see how the bit exchange works also? Just to prove that it's really easy with that setup :D

That would be sweet!

Pratyeka

03-29-2009, 04:48 PM

Steven Alford

03-29-2009, 06:55 PM

Sure would be nice if you would consider making these and selling them. Hint, Hint!!

liquidguitars

03-29-2009, 07:15 PM

As promised I posted this video on YouTube showing my CW with a RC Eliminator chuck carving my Celtic Knot project. I'll make another one showing the bit exchanges after I create a test project requesting several different bits.
Enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpXjuon1v2c

Have you checked the bit for slipping after long carves?
as it looks like your bit moved in the chuck at the end of your carving.

LG

mtylerfl

03-29-2009, 07:56 PM

Have you checked the bit for slipping after long carves?
as it looks like your bit moved in the chuck at the end of your carving.
LG

I noticed that, too. That was a beautiful carving otherwise!

PCW

03-29-2009, 08:41 PM

Have you checked the bit for slipping after long carves?
as it looks like your bit moved in the chuck at the end of your carving.

LG

Wow you and Michael are very observant I had to watch again to catch the last couple hundred lines was lower. Do you think that the bit came loose or was it a software error.

bjbethke

03-29-2009, 09:09 PM

Have you checked the bit for slipping after long carves?
as it looks like your bit moved in the chuck at the end of your carving.

LG
It may be the carving did not stay under the rollers, may be only 2 inches at the end of the carving, just a little snipe.

Tom75

03-29-2009, 11:26 PM

i watched the video it was cool and i added it to my subscriptions in my account on you tube . thanks for sharing . :)

Pratyeka

03-30-2009, 04:12 AM

Have you checked the bit for slipping after long carves?
as it looks like your bit moved in the chuck at the end of your carving.
LG

The depth of the carving is nice and even over the whole surface of the carving, could be a change in the camera angle?

Pratyeka

03-30-2009, 04:23 AM

It may be the carving did not stay under the rollers, may be only 2 inches at the end of the carving, just a little snipe.

You guys are too much:D, The way the light is located combined with the poor quality camera and the YouTube processing really exagerate the little difference in depth at the last inch of carving, I would post a high def pic tonight if my old digital still camera had not died yesterday.

In any case, the bit is rock solid in the chuck, the locking wedge cannot loosen during the carve. I did a 10 hour carve over 2 days once and nothing moved..

PCW

03-30-2009, 04:39 AM

Good Morning

I don't think there is any need for you to take a picture. Your word is as good as gold here. Your carving looks great and your chuck looks just as good. Just wish the CW spindle was not so proprietary so it would be easier for people to make the upgrade without special tooling. Thank for taking the time to demonstrate your conversion. You are a great asset to the this board. Dan

Pratyeka

03-30-2009, 06:38 AM

Thanks you Dan and everyone else for your kind words. There's not a day where I don't try to think of a way to make it easy for anyone to do the same. The best way would be for the maker of the RC chuck to design one specifically for the CW. Doing it my way would be too costly in time and the quality of installation would vary greatly.

Back to the snipe, I really should use a sled when working on short pieces of wood that don't stay under rollers. So far, the defect is barely noticeable if you don't know about it. I admit that those kind of details are not acceptable if the project is of commercial nature, the customer would probably return it. I must be more interested in tweaking the machine than making high quality work, but I'll fix that too as I accumulate experience from you guys.

Thanks

mtylerfl

03-30-2009, 08:04 AM

Pratyeka,

Glad to hear the carving level difference was minor. You're right that the lighting must have made it appear more so than it really was. That is a gorgeous carving pattern!

It is no secret that I've been on a "mission" along with LHR to help folks avoid potential problems with their projects. The "Seven-inch Rule" goes a long way to assure success with just about any project. Staying Under the Rollers is one of the most important things a user can do to eliminate many kinds of undesireable issues.

Your idea of using a sled to provide the extra material without having to waste any wood is a very good one. The April 2008 Tips & Tricks has an excellent article written by Doc Wheeler on various jig and sled techniques that you may find helpful.

liquidguitars

03-30-2009, 11:53 AM

I must be more interested in tweaking the machine than making high quality work, but I'll fix that too as I accumulate experience from you guys.

sorry to hear this :)

I am not 100% sure about the bit not moving after 2.5 hr carve. The only way it to measure the bit before and after. also having the bit hit the washer stop could incur some vibration movement as the bit carves.

for a sled design I would look at way Ken forum user name "Kenm810" builds his sleds for nice wide tail ends over 4" no tape or small rails. A good place to start.

LG

Pratyeka

03-30-2009, 01:27 PM

I am not 100% sure about the bit not moving after 2.5 hr carve. The only way it to measure the bit before and after. also having the bit hit the washer stop could incur some vibration movement as the bit carves.
LG

I can't really describe to you the way the RC clamp works, but I assure you that it creates enough pressure on the bit to cause a dent of you put more than 1/2 turn on the screw. The bit doesn't move nor rotate even after a 6hr carve on hard maple (the hardest I've done so far.) I've used the big ogee bit also and no slippage.

Also, the washer is glued inside, it can't move, so no vibes there... gee, now I sound like I'm defending it... time for a coffee:D

liquidguitars

03-30-2009, 02:05 PM

Pratyeka

03-30-2009, 05:14 PM

This in no way is a Spanish inquisition just honest questions based on my limited knowage of said. :)

The wood was not 100% cut correctly so we have only you to test your design. can you use a vernier caliper to see if your not loosing some grip on the shank ?

regarding the washer stop I do not think the stop is moving, more of the end of the bit contacting the washer that could add some extra vibration.

LG

There is no possibility of movement of the bit once inside the RC chuck, the whole lenght of the shank is compressed by the sleeve.

I would see if the bit moved down by the change in position the notch on the bit shank, which I can see lining-up with the edge of the hole. Wish I had a functioning camera.

I have this type of clamping system on shaft couplings inside the machines I work on at work, some have been running for more than 10 years, nothing can move with this type of clamping.

mark1945

04-07-2009, 12:08 PM

mtylerfl

04-07-2009, 03:02 PM

Hello Mark,

What was the runout before changing to the new chuck?

mark1945

04-07-2009, 03:40 PM

Michael
I checked the runout about 25 hours ago run time on the upper part of cutting bit and it was .002 on the carving bit it was ,0015.But it was still carving fine,the main problem I have is that this machine is hard on chucks and adapters.has been since it was new,my other machine has almost 100 hours on same chuck same adapters never a bb mark always comes out by hand have never had to use tool.both machines are treated exactly the same .chucks are kept clean very lightly lubed with 3in1 oil then wipee down etc.oldest machine has 250 hours and was on 3rd chuck when I put on RC chuck.has always been very hard to extract bits even after a short carve always have to use tool and tap on chuck and blow out from top side to bit out.Have no idea why this machine is so diffrent from other1 but new chuck has solved my problem.

mtylerfl

04-07-2009, 04:53 PM

Very interesting, Mark. Thank you for the additional info. Glad the new chuck has solved the problem for you.

Pratyeka

04-07-2009, 05:26 PM

I like your idea on the chuck.Picked up 2 of them at the woodshow in Houston over the weekend.set up the first on my oldest machine,I turned to .5375 and was able to get a press fit used JB weld on washer and a small amount at bottom for safetys sake.lreinstalled this morning checked run out less then .0002 did a carve to see how it does.Smoothest machine has ever ran and seems much quiter also .Changing bits also is much easier.Will do my other machine as soon as it's out of warranty

Thank you for sharing your experience with us. Although I see with my own eyes every day the results of my mod, it's a great relief that at least one other owner has had the same success I had with it. Makes me happy to have shared my idea.

Tonight, I'm starting three plaques on oak, Harley-Davidson related. All on order from co-workers, so they are sold already. Will post pics when done.

dvel56

04-12-2009, 11:10 PM

Pratyeka

04-13-2009, 05:30 PM

Regarding this QC change out instead of cutting the nut off the shaft Etc.
Would it be possible to turn a shaft to fit and then thread it the same as the Bocsh Eliminator Chuck
If someone can get me the shaft specs I have somone who could turn one

Dvel

The spindle shaft could be made from scratch with a thread fitting the Eliminator RC chuck of your choice. But there no point doing it. The best way would be to make a spindle with a chuck integrated into it, on piece of metal from top to bottom, with the square hole on top for the flex shaft and an Eliminator RC chuck look-alike at the bottom.

Pratyeka

04-13-2009, 05:59 PM

Well, my machine is hard at work right now in my garage, unattended for the past 4hrs. I have made a stand with a soundproof box on top. It can now run quietly enough not to be heard through the wall by my neighbour. It also has a self contained dust collector which gets 99% of all the sawdust in the machine. So I don't need ever to stop the machine to vacuum the dust. I have made a pickup nozzle that sucks the dust from the top of the board, about 1 inch from the bit, on the whole width. It is held in place with magnets, easily removed for bit changes. Will post pics as soon as I get my new camera.

The flex cable barely gets above room temp, and the Z-truck gets slightly warm to the touch. Before with the QC chuck, it would get too hot to touch.

I have read some warnings against letting the machine run unattended. I know the risks, but in the past 7 days I have let the machine run alone some 20hrs. that's how much I trust the machine now.

The results I get from the machine now are just fantastic. I guess once you remove almost all vibrations the machine becomes much more reliable.

mark1945

04-13-2009, 07:24 PM

Mine has been doing great also,same as yours flex cable is about 4-5 deg. cooler and noise level of machine is noticably lower I was running both mine all day yesterday side by side and my new 1 with quick chuck was alot louder didnt sound as smooth and flex was warmer then RC machine.You can put your hand on both machines and feel the difference RC has less vibration.After a 7 hour carve just loosened allen screw and slipped out bit no saw dust in chuck. Mark

chebytrk

04-14-2009, 09:00 AM

Looking forward to the pics, especially the sound proof box ! Thanks..

Pratyeka

04-15-2009, 08:33 AM

DocWheeler

05-03-2009, 12:59 PM

There are several threads about replacing the QC with another chuck and other threads complaining about the QC. Since the Quick Chuck is one of LHR's patents and one that probably helps them financially, I hesitate to bash it.

I was tempted to add my name to the list that Al started about a "show-of-hands" when I realized that what I really want is a balanced QC as I'm not sure about using the "eliminator" with my limitations.

If LHR is listening - will you sell me one? Otherwise, is there someone else that will modify them at a reasonable cost?

pcfry

11-20-2009, 11:59 AM

If anyone has started selling these, rather than relying on us to make them ourselves, could someone email me the information on where to buy one? Thanks. pcfry at forgottensea dot org

dbfletcher

11-20-2009, 12:06 PM

If anyone has started selling these, rather than relying on us to make them ourselves, could someone email me the information on where to buy one? Thanks. pcfry at forgottensea dot org

Take a look at this thread. There are many of us on this forum that have switched to rjustices "Rock Chuck" and there is nearly a 100% satisfaction rating from users who have purchased. at the bottom of any of rjustices posts he included links for more info about the rock chuck and how to buy. There are also videos of how to install and remove the QC chuck.

http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?t=13012

Hope that helps,

Doug Fletcher

TIMCOSBY

11-20-2009, 12:19 PM

It may be the carving did not stay under the rollers, may be only 2 inches at the end of the carving, just a little snipe.

out from under the rollers. i have found that if you adjust your outfeed tables a little high it wont do that. but again my machine is diff than most.

rjustice

11-20-2009, 03:24 PM

If anyone has started selling these, rather than relying on us to make them ourselves, could someone email me the information on where to buy one? Thanks. pcfry at forgottensea dot org

Hi pcfry,
You can check out the products on my website at www.cw-parts.com
There are several links in my signature below that you should check out as well...

Thank you sincerely for your interest. I think you will be very pleased with the Rock Chuck System!

Best regards,

Ron

PCW

01-26-2011, 01:17 PM

Hi all,
I have received several requests asking me if I could make a modified Eliminator RC chuck. Although I could possibly do it, you would still have to install it into your machine after removing your QC. Also, I would need one good spindle to check for proper fit of the modified chuck. If someone would send me their old spindle or defective Z-truck with a good spindle in it, then I would consider making the mods by request only.
Please understand that there is much involved to do this mod right. I know of one other member who has done it successfully and is very happy with it.

Talk about a day late and a dollar short.... Joe Marmo maker of the Eliminator RC chuck left me a voice message today stating that he had some exciting information about making his eliminator chuck to fit the CW.

Where were you a couple of years ago.. Ha Ha

Pratyeka

02-04-2011, 06:40 AM

I wonder if Joe is even aware of the new version chuck LHR put out?

Digitalwoodshop

02-04-2011, 11:04 AM

I have gotten a few calls too... I am happy with the Rock. Being a 1/2 inch only version turned me off from the start. I only work in 1/4 inch and for the rare time that I do need 1/2 inch the ROCK has a Chuck that spins on to replace the 1/4 inch and you are GOOD TO GO.... The Rock gets my support. GOOD DESIGN RON !!!!!

Same for the CT..... 1/2 inch only....

AL

PCW

02-04-2011, 11:33 AM

Same here Al.... I had a eliminator chuck on another mill and really didn't like it so I took it off. The eliminator chuck just did not work as smooth as the Rock and it left burrs marks on the bits when it clamped down. I get none of the marks with the Rock.

Digitalwoodshop

02-04-2011, 02:36 PM

And for the guys that have a ROCK and then decide to change to a CT, I would be interested in your old Rock..... I still need 1 more and looking for a 1/2 inch head too. No rush but still looking.... It is just a GREAT DESIGN.... And I am into the CW for the long haul..... I don't see my Business plan calling for a Shop Bot.....

I DO see my Business Plan calling for this new $41K Color Flat Bed Printer for making Glow in the Dark Fire Tags and stuff.....

I can only dream.... http://www.globalprintmonitor.com/en/gpm-white-papers/prepress/11492#

AL