Rotating Letters

[Jossef]

I am trying to make a plaque and I need to rotate a letter. I have rotated all the letters but one and now I can't figure out how I did the other letters. I am using an Apple so I do not have a center mouse button.

[Jossef]

Got it fixed!! No problems now!!

[AskBud]

I am trying to make a plaque and I need to rotate a letter. I have rotated all the letters but one and now I can't figure out how I did the other letters. I am using an Apple so I do not have a center mouse button.

Here are two options.
AskBud

[ChrisAlb]

You can also simply type the angle you want in the angle box.

[tcough3475]

Have a clock face I'm working on and want to rotate the numbers as they go around the clock. I'm using Times New Roman and centerline, the numbers rotate, but then appear to be italized. The 3, 6, 9 and 12 appear OK when rotated, but the rest look italized. Any ideas/suggestions?

[DickB]

Post your mpc please.

[SteveNelson46]

Have a clock face I'm working on and want to rotate the numbers as they go around the clock. I'm using Times New Roman and centerline, the numbers rotate, but then appear to be italized. The 3, 6, 9 and 12 appear OK when rotated, but the rest look italized. Any ideas/suggestions?

I made this example and they look okay to me. Try a different font. Like DickB said "post your mpc"

[tcough3475]

68302

Here's the mpc. Would have posted it earlier but was at work.

[tcough3475]

I made this example and they look okay to me. Try a different font. Like DickB said "post your mpc"

Sorry, don't have 2.xxx Did try a couple other fonts but had the same results using something I like.

[eelamb]

Try this to see if this helps. I am also uploading a template I made for clocks for placement of the number.
I rotated to be straight, then changed the right hand size number so all the numbers were the same size.

EDIT: just noticed the 9 was wrong.

[CW-HAL9000]

Look at pic for example on how to rotate text. As Ed says you have to resize when you rotate.

[tcough3475]

Thanks eelamb, it's much closer to what I'm looking to do but I notice just a slight warping/italized when rotated, but just the slightest. What did you do to get them to this point? I always appreciate the help, but would like to learn what methods work best.

[tcough3475]

68308
Look at pic for example on how to rotate text.

My intent is to rotate all the numbers as you move around the clock so the base is towards the center. I've tried both entering the rotation angle as well as moving the green dot around, but both of these methods distort the number. Here's the intent.
'

[eelamb]

OK here it is again with numbers rotated.

[SteveNelson46]

Although I don't now why there would be any differences, there was another user here on the forum that had the Times New Roman font and it didn't look the same as mine. You may have the same type as he did so my numbers may not look the same as yours.

When you put the numbers on the clock, use the size box on the toolbar to set the height before you rotate. Don't set the width. It will auto-size proportionately to keep the same aspect ratio. Also, set the angle of the numbers using the toolbar angle box instead of the rotation handle. This assures that all numbers will be the same size and at the exact angle needed. I reduced the size of the numbers so the VII, VIII, and IX didn't run together.

[tcough3475]

Thanks guys, still can't figure out why the numbers became distorted, maybe it is the version of TNR font I have. I tried several different fonts and had the same results as before.

Eddie - can I ask how you did this? I appreciate the help but I'd also like to learn how to avoid this in the future.
Steve - I followed your directions but had the same result as before with the distorted text. And it does it regardless if I use raster, outline or centerline.

[tcough3475]

OK, so I tried something different. Started a new project and entered numbers, set the height as Steve recommended, then rotated the text. Worked fine.

Went back into the clock mpc and entered new text (not copied), set the height and rotated without problem appearing again. So the issue was with the original text (in this case the number XII) which I copied and placed around the clock face then edited. Don't know why it became jacked up, but now it's working as I wanted it to. Fortunatly there isn't a lot of re-work needed to get the project finished for the weekend.

[tcough3475]

Narrowed the issue down some more. When I adjust (constrain) both the height and width of the text, the distortion occurs. If I only constrain one of the variables, no distortion. This will make it more challenging to find a font that will give me the results I'm after (narrow & tall numbers). So it appears there is a bug in the software as this is an undesirable and uncontrollable result, at least in 1.187. Does anyone know if this occurs in 2.xx? May be the motivation I need to make the transition.

[DickB]

I suspect the undesired tilt occurs because you stretched the letters, changing their aspect ratio. Try entering new text, place it at an angle, then drag the top of the rectangle outlining the text upwards to see what I mean.

Same in Designer 2.

[eelamb]

Eddie - can I ask how you did this? I appreciate the help but I'd also like to learn how to avoid this in the future.


All I did was create each letter one at a time, and place it on the board at the proper location. Then I zoomed on on each and rotated the letter using the center node, and moved the letter to the right location again. There was no need to resize.
Yes resizing using the yellow node will distort the letters. Always use one of the 4 corner nodes. This keeps the aspect ration right. But for this type of work using the resize on the menu where you type in the size you want is best, for only that way can you get all the letters the same size.

[SteveNelson46]

Just a suggestion. I cleaned up the lines a little and added a center deco. Also, on the back I changed the recess to a pocket cut using the 1/8" cutting bit. If you like it you are welcome to use it in any way that you like. If not, burn it.

EDIT: Interestingly, when I opened my own file in Designer 2.05 the IV and V had the same problem even though I had completely removed the numbers and re-created them in 1.187.

[FWMiller]

I get the text distortion any time the width gets stretched or shrink at a different percentage. I don't think it's a bug, but it is a side effect of the way the software was written. In a typical word editing or graphics program the font height is fixed and the bounding box is stretched to fit. Unfortunately, designer takes the bounding box and mashes the text to fit which causes the distortion if you aren't careful in how you manipulate the bounding box. I'd love to have a way to fix the font height while rotating and editing text. What I usually have to do when editing text to prevent the distortion(as you found)is to delete the original , and create new. Makes it very challenging to rotate or arc text and have different text boxes on the same design have the same text character height and width.

[tcough3475]

Thanks again for your help guys! Wish (and hope) CW has something in the works to prevent this in future upgrades to 2.xx. May have to wait until 3.xx comes around. I'm still looking on line for a tall narrow font for this project that will avoid the problem.

Steve - after I sent the mpc, I changed the back to a pocket (using a 1/2" straight and 0.2 max cut depth. I lost the 1/8 bit to a very solid piece of oak earlier this year and have been using a 3/16th bit since.

And hey, this is my 100th post, only 900 more til senior member status!!! Get the half barrel on ice!!

[DickB]

Another way to do this is to use the Arc option in the text tool. It will keep all the numbers the same height. For your clock you may have to do this in two parts, say numerals 9-12 and 1-3 top and 4-8 bottom. You would need to adjust the number of spaces typed in between numerals and also the letter spacing. Designer 2 would have an advantage in that spacing can be varied within the line of text.

68325

[FWMiller]

Dick, I have had a very difficult, if not impossible time trying to get the character heights the same in all the parts when doing this. If the box is the same size but there are different number of characters, or even different characters I always end up with them being slightly different size. Do you have a trick to get them all to the same height other than trial and error?

[DickB]

Here are some suggestions when desiring to have multiple text boxes appear in proportion to one another:

The first key is to only re-size text while in 90-degree orientations. This will simplify things.

When re-sizing text using the mouse, always re-size by dragging a corner so that the aspect ratio is preserved. Don't stretch the text taller or shorter, or elongate or compress it, by dragging the sides of the text box. If you do, it becomes very difficult to make the next text box with different text match in proportion. You can also use the Size boxes on the toolbar to re-size. Changing one value (e.g. height) will cause the other value (e.g. width) to be adjusted proportionally.

Note the various heights of text depending upon whether the text contains upper case or letters with extenders such as g and y. For any given font, I might place some sample temporary text and note the resulting text box heights. For example "The", "ax", and "any" in Times New Roman default to .727", .492", and .688" tall. If you re-size any text, use a calculator or spreadsheet to determine the correct size of the various text boxes that you want to be in proportion. For example, if you enlarge "The" by 1.5 times, enlarge "ax" by the same proportion. Re-size the text by typing in the desired height of the text box in the Size height box in the toolbar using the results of your spreadsheet. The length will be adjusted in proportion.

Rotate the text only after it has been sized. Don't re-size the text after it has been rotated.

Does that help?

[FWMiller]

Thanks. These are some great ideas for me to try.

[tcough3475]

DickB - It does help understand how I need to work in Designer and following everyones advice has eliminated the distortion of the text once rotated. Unfortunatly it doesn't appear that there is a way to change both the height and width of the text independant of each other (i.e. it must be constrained). And this is OK if the selected font is has all the characteristics a project requires. But, as in my case, if you need to compress in one direction and stretch in the other direction, most likley you'll end up with some undesirable results. Was really hoping to do this using vectors instead of raster carving everything just to save time. This inability seems to be a short-fall of Designer as I'm able to do this in most other drawing packages I use (Corel, PaintShop Pro, and even Aspire). I only have the trial version of Aspire to play with but it looks like I'll be saving my money to purchase it in the future.

Thanks again folks for all your help! And I'm not ragging on Designer as it has been a great little program, one just needs to know it's limitations and the work-arounds such as this. And learning the package is just as important as using it to carve the projects.

[dbfletcher]

DickB - It does help understand how I need to work in Designer and following everyones advice has eliminated the distortion of the text once rotated. Unfortunatly it doesn't appear that there is a way to change both the height and width of the text independant of each other (i.e. it must be constrained). And this is OK if the selected font is has all the characteristics a project requires. But, as in my case, if you need to compress in one direction and stretch in the other direction, most likley you'll end up with some undesirable results. Was really hoping to do this using vectors instead of raster carving everything just to save time. This inability seems to be a short-fall of Designer as I'm able to do this in most other drawing packages I use (Corel, PaintShop Pro, and even Aspire). I only have the trial version of Aspire to play with but it looks like I'll be saving my money to purchase it in the future.

Thanks again folks for all your help! And I'm not ragging on Designer as it has been a great little program, one just needs to know it's limitations and the work-arounds such as this. And learning the package is just as important as using it to carve the projects.

If you are doing your design work in Corel, just save as an Adobe Illustrator 8.x file from corel and then you can use ai2mpc to convert it for the Carvewright. You will probably also want to convert any text objects to curves before you output. Search the forum for the post with the ai2mpc.zip file. If you cant find it, I can also send it to you. I do also own the dxf importer, but I still find myself using ai2mpc more often because of several features it has that are missing in dxf importer.

[DickB]

Doug, does that method work for Centerline text?

[dbfletcher]

No.... I guess I read too quickly. I just caught that he wanted to stay with vectors... so I wasn't thinking "centerline". My apologies.

[tcough3475]

Thanks Doug, and yeah I wanted to use centerline for the look as well as the speed. I've seen the posts on ai2mpc and haven't downloaded/tried it as I've been able to do everything I need in Designer. I do have the DXF importer but will take a look at ai2mpc.

And DickB, you have some amazing clocks!

[SteveNelson46]

Have a clock face I'm working on and want to rotate the numbers as they go around the clock. I'm using Times New Roman and centerline, the numbers rotate, but then appear to be italized. The 3, 6, 9 and 12 appear OK when rotated, but the rest look italized. Any ideas/suggestions?

Try these numbers. They are all vectors so you can assign a bit to any depth and size without distortion.

EDIT: I had the 10 and the 11 angle of rotation off by 10 degrees. I fixed it

[jakab]

Shouldn't the "4, 5, 6, 7 and 8" be rotated 180 degrees?

...Peter

[SteveNelson46]

Shouldn't the "4, 5, 6, 7 and 8" be rotated 180 degrees?

...Peter

I suppose it would just be a matter of preference but, I added them to the file.

[cestout]

I have an un unrelated but related question. On the picture of the finished clock, how did you get the centerline text dark with the face still light? When I do outdoor signs I spray the lettering and also painting the surrounding area, then sand the surrounding area to remove the unwanted paint. That will not word for fine stuff lild this.
Clint

[SteveNelson46]

Here are the same numbers as Roman Numerals.

[jakab]

Thank you!

...Peter

[SteveNelson46]

I have an un unrelated but related question. On the picture of the finished clock, how did you get the centerline text dark with the face still light? When I do outdoor signs I spray the lettering and also painting the surrounding area, then sand the surrounding area to remove the unwanted paint. That will not word for fine stuff lild this.
Clint

Clint

When I have a V-carved sign where the letters are recessed (as in Centerline) I usually spray the entire sign with 2 coats of shellac first. After that dries, spray the letters black or any color you like and then sand off the surface with a random orbit sander (or a drum sander if you have one but, it really messes up the expensive sandpaper). Spraying the entire sign with shellac first stops most, if not all, of the paint from bleeding into the surrounding areas.

[tcough3475]

Just a suggestion. I cleaned up the lines a little and added a center deco. Also, on the back I changed the recess to a pocket cut using the 1/8" cutting bit. If you like it you are welcome to use it in any way that you like. If not, burn it.

EDIT: Interestingly, when I opened my own file in Designer 2.05 the IV and V had the same problem even though I had completely removed the numbers and re-created them in 1.187.

Steve - Can I ask how you created the deco? You don't want to know what I did to make the short lines around the outer circles :-)

[SteveNelson46]

Steve - Can I ask how you created the deco? You don't want to know what I did to make the short lines around the outer circles :-)

I used Corel Draw to copy an object around a circle and saved it as a DXF. I can modify it for you if needed. Let me know.

[DickB]

Steve - Can I ask how you created the deco? You don't want to know what I did to make the short lines around the outer circles :-)The radial vector generator posted by JLT (http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?17794-Make-Gears-with-Radial-Vector-Generator&highlight=radial+vector) some time ago can be useful for more than making gears. It can make radiant lines in a jiffy. No special Designer software is needed.

[tcough3475]

Tried creating the radials in AutoCAD and exporting/importing as a DXF but for some reason everything except the radials came in. Didn't think about Corel but tried it and worked great.

Also downloaded and tried the radial vector generator and it worked very well too. Wish I had either of these tips before spending an hour or so copying, pasting, rotating, trimming, etc. using my attempts.

Thanks guys for all your help as well as the lessons!