Should I be frustrated? Second Failure

[SteveEJ]

I have had my machine for about 8 weeks. On the second carve the cover switch failed. I worked with LHR support to diagnose the problem and they determined that the switch was bad. They mailed me one and I installed it, everything was good. I traveled a couple of weeks and came back. I helped my friend design a Sea Chest for a person retiring from the Navy. I spent $60.00 for the patterns, etc. as they were a great quality. I started carving the left side, every 30-40 minutes lifting the cover as it reached the end of a line. I did this so I could vacuum the machine, keeping it as clean as possible. After 3/4 of the carving I lifted the cover and I instantly received a Z Axis Stall Error 238. I called LHR and he told me what to do to start the carve roughly where I left off. Ok.. I'll modify the work file and start it again. As soon as I turned the machine back on I received the same Z Axis Stall Error 238. After looking at the machine the Z Truck was very stiff and would barely move. I examined and cleaned some more. The bearings look OK, the belt and gears look clean and OK but it is still stiff. Now, I have a machine with about 33 hours carve time that has had 2 show stopping errors. Yes I am going to call LHR tomorrow to get it fixed but my point is that I will have more down time than up time! This project is pretty important as my friend and I really wanted to honor a retiring military person.
To put this in as tactful a way as possible, CRAP!! Is there a QC Problem here? Why does this machine want to fail? 37 Hours and 2 failures indicates to me that there are either design problems or QC problems. Either way it is unacceptable! Especially for a product that costs as much as this machine does.
LHR Support is great, I have no issues with them at all. My machine is still under warranty so I know the parts will be shipped out and I will have to install them. I just want a machine that works consistently. I keep it VERY clean and know the value in doing so. It just seems that I am always reading about hardware issues.
I was going to buy a probe but I am re-thinking my position now as I want to save machine up time for carving. It does a GREAT job when working. My problem is keeping it working.

Flame me if you want but this is my experience so far.

Unhappy in West Tennessee..

Steve

[Jeff_Birt]

Steve, I can understand being frustrated but there is no need to get angry.

First thing turn the machine power off, let it set a few minutes and then try moving each axis by hand. If the Z feels stiff look for chips jammed in the Z belts area or maybe else catching. The only time I had something like that happen it was the clamp that hold the Z-belt to the back of the Z-truck. (After a couple years of use.)

When I stopping in the middle of a carve I HIGHLY suggest using the stop key not just lifting the lid. There is a slim chance that the machine will keep trying to move even as the cut motor stops (just for a few milliseconds.) Pressing stop allows the machine to stop in a controlled manner.

[SteveEJ]

Jeff,
I appreciate the post, and as I stated, I am frustrated..Not Angry. It takes a lot to anger me and it is usually people, not machines.;)

I checked the Z Axis bearings, belt and external gears. They are all very clean and appear to be OK. It is almost like there is something in a gear box or the motor it self. Does the gear box come apart? If I do take it apart will the warranty be voided? I really want and need to get these carvings completed. Today is the 20th and the chest is supposed to be completed by the end of the month.

Also, Are there a lot of machine failures or is it just my imagination. I am reading about some sort of failure almost daily.

Not Angry in West Tennessee.. Just VERY Frustrated.

Steve

[hess]

Hey Steve Sorry to see you are having problems. It seems we all must go though them. I had problems from the get go with the door. Now I just take the side off every now and them and clean and lube every frickin thing I see and if it dont run it gets lubed. Knock on wood I have had better luck now.

I dont think I would worry much about voiding the Warrt just because it seems most of us are the ones who fix our own units if we can but might wait to talk to tech they seem to know most of the fixes and have been great to me so far and I tend to become a real butt when it comes to new stuff braking down
Funny thing is I have 2 new units 1 CW and 1 CC the CW has been the problem maker for me the CC has just kept on tickin. I just hope I did not jink myself.

Good luck if we were closer I would just invite you over to continue you work. Good luck

Hess

[SteveEJ]

Thanks Hess.. If we lived closer I'd probably take you up on it. Oh well, I can finish my Wilderness Clock while I am waiting for a part, if it is needed. Hopefully LHR Tech Support can do some phone magic.

I just found out a good friend has liver cancer.. That kind of puts things in perspective!

Thanks again and Happy Carving!

Steve

[hess]

Know what you mean We just lost a rider hit from behind while waiting to turn thew him 100 feet KOI. It is hard not to get worked up order stuff with these units. I sure did was going to send them both back. Took a breath walked away and have to say I love what they can do. I do feel CW as a comp should be looking at the amount of failures which I hope they do. I then have to remind myself that this machine has only been out for a short time. I think of how many problems the Betas must have had and thank all those who helped work them up
Fact remains it is still sadding to see new units mess up.

Hess

[PCW]

I have a K2 CNC as well as the CR. The K2 CNC with stepper motors is a lot more rouged of a machine. But for the CW is not for everyone. They do need to be cleaned and lubed after each use.

You have to look at it this way. You know you are going to have problems and you are going to have to fix them from time to time. I myself am a ASE Mechanic and in the IT field Computer Tech so I do not have as much problems as some others. However if you think you are going to purchase one of these machines and run it hard and then put it up wet and not expecting a problem I would have to tell you not to buy a CW or CC save your money and not buy the machine.

The CW software is what has sold me on it. I spent a year working on Cad Cam programs trying to run gcode and I have to tell you it is a learning curve. CW software make it simple to use. I only hope that someone some come up with a MPC to gcode conversion. That would make my day. As long as LHR Technologies, Inc takes care of their customers I do not see any problems.

Also I am sure as time go's on they will make more improvement on problem areas. Besides there is all these wonderful people in this forum that are willing to help. I'm hooked Dan

[Rick P]

Steve - are you using a downdraft under your CW? They really help keep the insides cleaner.

[newcarver]

Frustration seemed to be a part of my first "issues" with the machine also. Had spent many many hours on the phone with lhr. They were always helpful, and got me back up in a short time. Been in your shoes more than a few times, and yes, it is very frustrating to think about, why is this thing failing for me with hardly any time on it.... I still feel that their QC needs an overhaul, badly. If you stick with it though, eventually, the issues will will cease(or at least slow), and you'll be on your way to carving up a storm. Try(I know its easier said than done) to be patient, read all the trouble shooting posts you can and clean, clean, clean your machine. Also, as posted earlier, a downdraft table will help ALOT. Several plans and ideas for this can be found in the forum. I'm sure you'll be told most issues are user error, sometimes this may be true. However, it is not always true.

[SteveEJ]

Thanks for the posts..

As stated, I am very careful about cleaning during and after a carve. I am a believer in PM's and practice what I preach. As a retired Air Traffic Controller and Automation Specialist for the FAA, I have learned and taught that one needs to pay attention to details. And I too have been into computer programming and CHI since the days of the Vic 20.

I agree the software is very good but there are a few things that I would do with it. I would also modify the hardware/software combo to allow a resume in the event of errors like this. I would also place some prompts in the software on the machine like "Are You Sure (Y/N)?" in places that could stop a carve accidentally, etc.

Getting to the end product is what is important to a lot of people. They do not want to have to learn the quirks about a machines operation in order to avoid mistakes. The Stop and Enter is a good and simple example. If they were designed to be placed next to each other, as indeed is the case, then a cover should be placed over the button OR the software should be modified for a "Are You Sure (Y/N)?" prompt. Examination of these types of quirks, with software mods, could eliminate a lot of simple mistakes.

A Carve Position, via raster line number or something like this, could be recorded on the card and used for a restart. The software could be modified to allow for a "Resume from last position" option to eliminate the operator/user from having to 'Work Around' this type of event.

QC needs to be examined more closely. There are too many posts here about hardware failures, and this is a friendly forum. There are probably forums out there were folks are getting 'Angry' and flaming this machine to death.

With all of this said, I do love the end product when the machine works correctly. Yes, there could be improvements to the software and hardware but I am hooked! So, I will get it fixed and press on. I do hope LHR takes these suggestions to heart as it could help a really good machine and turn it into a really GREAT machine!

No, I am STILL not angry.. Just unhappy about my current situation and the time line crunch it has put me in.

Thanks for listening..:-D

Steve

[SteveEJ]

Well, Thanks to Barry we found the problem. The lower right bearing on the Z Truck is frozen. It is the bottom adjustable bearing. A new one will be sent out as soon as a supervisor approves it with instructions on how to drill out the old screw and attach the new bearing. Thanks for the help Barry! Now I have 2 more maintenance procedures to add to my manual for possible future reference.

Any tips or things to watch for in replacing the bearing? I presume that thread lock will be used, etc. Any experience would be appreciated.

I still think there is a QC problem when a bearing fails after 37 hours of cut time.

Steve

[Jeff_Birt]

The QC and bearing failure are unrealted. A bearing failure that early on is an indication that the bearings was just faulty. I would suspect that it had a seal problem or that the cage fell apart.

[Wild Bill]

The QC and bearing failure are unrealted. A bearing failure that early on is an indication that the bearings was just faulty. I would suspect that it had a seal problem or that the cage fell apart.

This shows the type of thinking about this machine. There are so many Quick Chuck problems that QC is thought to refer to the Quick Chuck. QC is Quality Control. And yes, that applies to the reason the bearing failed.

[SteveEJ]

My QC is in fact Quality Control.

Steve

[mtylerfl]

Hello Steve,

Have you already tried just holding the screw in position with a screwdriver, then turning the adjustment nut on that bearing with a 12mm flat wrench? Perhaps all it needs is a small adjustment to get it back into proper position. The screws are supposed to have permanent loctite on them already from the factory, so if the screw is not loose, adjusting the bearing via the hex nut may do the trick. (crossing fingers for you)

You might want to download the Z-Truck Replacement (pdf) instructions before attempting any adjustment and/or replacement of the bearing. Those instructions include how to get the bearings adjusted properly. http://www.carvebuddy.com/PDFs/CarveWright_service_z-truck_Replacement.pdf

Just to mention...another possible cause of a frozen Z-truck is that one or both of the two tiny screws in the bracket that holds the z belt on the back of the truck may have backed out from vibration and are causing the lockup due to a screw jammed in the small gap between the z and the y trucks. (Probably not the cause in your case, if you have already verified for certain that the bearing itself is locked.)

[SteveEJ]

Thanks Michael,
Barry had me do all of the above. I found the seized bearing after I removed the Z Truck. The screws you were talking about were fine and not rubbing against the housing. The Z Motor is smooth and OK.

Now I need the parts so I can replace them and try to finish the carving. Hopefully the carving that is already finished will match up with that which has not been carved yet. I have already added a zero depth region over the already carved area and uploaded it to the card, so I am ready to go when it is working again.

The good side, I now get to finish the Wilderness Clock you designed! :)


Steve