Cover lift issue

[Rick P]

I was doing a 3 hour carve and after 1 hour I lifted the cover to do a little cleaning. The bit slowed its rotation to a stop, but it never stopped going back and forth in its X-Y movement???
I only have about 12 hours on my machine. One previous time I lifted the cover during a carve...the bit stopped rotating and moved up and stopped its X-Y movement too. I think that's what is supposed to happen. Right?

[Ike]

Sounds like your cover switch is bad or has dust or a chip stuck in it. try using compressed air to blow it out. Also check to see if the screws holding it is tight, If not you may need a new switch a common issue. Especially if you are blowing the dust out with compressed air.

A better practice is to hit the stop button to stop and enter to start it up again. Less wear on the switch wear. Myself I never clean during a carve, even a long carve only when it finishes. Then I turn it off and vacuum and blow it out well.

Turning it off avoids static electricity! This is one possible cause I am sure you will get more replies, if not call LHR.

Ike

[Jeff_Birt]

If you need to stop the machine while it is running always press the 'STOP' button on the keypad. Then after the machine stops, open the lid. I have given a much longer, more complicated answer before on here before, you can search for it if you're interested.

When you lift the lid everything 'should' stop, but that is simply a safety feature, not the proper way to pause the machine. If the carriage is still moving that is a sign that there is something wrong with the front (keypad) side cover switch. Give the great techs at CarveWright a call, they can get you fixed up.

[FINGERS]

There was a tech at LHR who use-ta say lift the cover to stop the machine but I don't think he works there anymore, BE SMART AND USE THE STOP BOTTON and hook-up a down draft system don't use a shop vac on machine when it power-on.

[Dyna Rider]

If you need to stop the machine while it is running always press the 'STOP' button on the keypad. Then after the machine stops, open the lid. I have given a much longer, more complicated answer before on here before, you can search for it if you're interested.



There was a tech at LHR who use-ta say lift the cover to stop the machine but I don't think he works there anymore, BE SMART AND USE THE STOP BOTTON and hook-up a down draft system don't use a shop vac on machine when it power-on.

So… the information in the owners manual is wrong?

“At any point during operation the CarveWright machine can be
stopped by pressing the STOP key or by lifting the cover. If desired
the machine can be restarted by closing the cover and pressing
ENTER. The machine will resume cutting at the point where it was
stopped. Pressing the STOP button a second time will abort the
project, so be careful when restarting.”

Bill

[DocWheeler]

Dyna,

It isn't Wrong as it is designed to work as the manual states. However, trusting a switch that is in that dusty environment is not the Best way to go about it!

You can stop your car with the emergency break, but it is not generally the best way to do it.

Pressing stop is better on the Carvewright!

[Jeff_Birt]

In an emergency, lifting the cover will (should) stop the machine operation, that is true. However, I will maintain that it is not the wisest course of action to undertake to pause the machine.

[Amonaug]

I would have to agree. Lifting the cover should be fine for emergencies and as a safety measure BUT not as a main means of stopping the machine.

Lifting the cover requires both switches on each side to work and have the machine realise the switches are now open. The right switch cuts off the cut motor, the left switch cuts off the truck movement. The stop button performs both actions at the same time and is more reliable.

[Dyna Rider]

Dyna,
You can stop your car with the emergency break, but it is not generally the best way to do it.

Hi Doc
Interesting analogy, but I have yet to read in any manufactures automotive owners manual that the parking brake could be used with the same results as the main braking system. Some do state that it can be used when the main system fails, but the stopping distance will be considerable longer.


However, I will maintain that it is not the wisest course of action to undertake to pause the machine.
So the manufacture lacks a deep understanding or the capacity to make a sound judgment about the function of their machine


I would have to agree. Lifting the cover should be fine for emergencies and as a safety measure BUT not as a main means of stopping the machine.

So in the case of an emergency or as a safety precaution the cover is a reliable method to stop the machine, but under normal conditions it’s not? Hum…….. got me wondering about that one.

Bill

[Amonaug]

Hi Doc
Interesting analogy, but I have yet to read in any manufactures automotive owners manual that the parking brake could be used with the same results as the main braking system. Some do state that it can be used when the main system fails, but the stopping distance will be considerable longer.


So the manufacture lacks a deep understanding or the capacity to make a sound judgment about the function of their machine



So in the case of an emergency or as a safety precaution the cover is a reliable method to stop the machine, but under normal conditions it’s not? Hum…….. got me wondering about that one.

Bill

OK let's look at it this way. There are no switches in the cover to turn off the machine, only option is the stop button.

For some reason you need to reach inside the machine but OOPS forgot to press the stop button. Without switches the machine continues to carve and thus forms a safety hazard (sliced fingers, etc.). Also having the cover open while it carves can have things flying out of the machine (ie broken bits, etc).

So the switches are fine from that point of view, they stop the machine when a safety hazard exists. The stop button to me is just a more reliable way to stop both functions but the switches are still there as back-up.

[ChrisAlb]

Personally, I think this a mute point. For the first year I opened the cover to stop the machine every 15 minutes for cleaning because the manual said you can. I never had a problem at all and my cover switches always worked fine.

Then we had a discussion in here about 6 or 7 months ago on the subject of "possible" arcing occurring in the cover switches and "possibly" causing damage to the electronics. So I started using the stop button. Now after doing that for those months I have cover switch issues. Not saying it's related because even when using the stop button, I'm still opening the cover to clean it out but it sure seems funny.

Bottom line (to me) is, as long as the cover switches are working properly, either method of stopping the machine is fine. That's what the cover switches are for. At least according to the manual that is and it always worked just fine for me.

[bjbethke]

OK let's look at it this way. There are no switches in the cover to turn off the machine, only option is the stop button.

For some reason you need to reach inside the machine but OOPS forgot to press the stop button. Without switches the machine continues to carve and thus forms a safety hazard (sliced fingers, etc.). Also having the cover open while it carves can have things flying out of the machine (ie broken bits, etc).

So the switches are fine from that point of view, they stop the machine when a safety hazard exists. The stop button to me is just a more reliable way to stop both functions but the switches are still there as back-up.
So the switches are fine from that point of view, they stop the machine when a safety hazard exists. The stop button to me is just a more reliable way to stop both functions but the switches are still there as back-up.
__________________ ___________________ ___________________


Not sure about all this!

The main switching ckt. Is in the Controller unit. And I don’t think it matters which way you do an Energy Stop. If the CW does not stop, there is a short in the path and the path is not open.

All these switches are in an electronic path that cuts the power in the controller unit. Any short in this path would not completely stop the CW machine. They all require you to “Press Enter” to restart the CW.

The only real way to be safe is pull the plug out of the wall socket.

[bjbethke]

“Subject of "possible" arcing occurring in the cover switches and "possibly" causing damage to the electronics.”

Chris;

I do not think you would get arcing occurring in the cover switches by opening the cover unless you had a large Capacitor discharge. Arcing would happen when you close the switch with a current load. Cover switches are closes when the “Enter” button is pushed.

[ChrisAlb]

BJB,

One cover switch cuts power to the cut motor and one to the Y & Z circuit boards. You may be right about not getting an arc when "Opening" the cover. I'm really not sure except to say that I've seen arcs when pulling a plug drawing power (on anything like a light or something) out of the wall a lot of times.

I've also noticed a very short cut motor "jerk" when closing the cover whether it was stopped by the cover or the stop button. It only happens once in a while but I have seen it do that several times over the years.

[Reset]

Bottom line (to me) is, as long as the cover switches are working properly,But that is what Rick P originally posted about... the switch(s) was NOT work properly.


I was doing a 3 hour carve and after 1 hour I lifted the cover to do a little cleaning. The bit slowed its rotation to a stop, but it never stopped going back and forth in its X-Y movement???
I only have about 12 hours on my machine. One previous time I lifted the cover during a carve...the bit stopped rotating and moved up and stopped its X-Y movement too. I think that's what is supposed to happen. Right?

The argument is being made that the stop button should be used as the primary way to pause the machine. That is ok. BUT I think that it is equally important that the cover SAFETY switches work at all times and reliably, without user intervention (ie: failure due to dust, arcing, movement of the switch, etc.) as a backup should the stop button fail. That is really what they are there for.

The purpose of the cover safety switches is to INSURE the z-truck doesn't move, and the bit doesn't spin, once the cover is open and you can put your hands in there.

Most, if not all, other power tools come with instructions to unplug the unit before changing any bit or blade (or cleaning). Understandably, the CW cannot be unplugged to change bits, which is the reason for the two safety switches, to cut all power to the parts that can do bad things to you.

Keep in mind, the OP has only 12 hours on the machine, and encountered this WHILE attempting to clean the machine.

Yes. I agree the machine should be kept clean.
Yes. I agree it is the responsibility of the user to insure safety features are working correctly before using such a machine.

However, due to the nature of this type of machine, it is critical that such a safety feature be designed to be "not so prone to failure" from normal use conditions and certainly not after only 12 hours of use.

FORGOT TO ADD:

Which is why, after many issues with the cover switches, I replaced the two cheesy failure prone cover micro switches with one better, and more reliable toggle switch.

Yes, I have to remember to manually flip the switch before opening the cover... just like I have to manually unplug any of my other tools before changing bits or blades.

Tommy :)

[ChrisAlb]

But that is what Rick P originally posted about... the switch(s) was NOT work properly.

Tommy :)

Hey Tommy, how ya been?

I understand the OP post. But that was answered in the very next one. As threads so often do, the conversation then migrated to the difference between using the cover or stop button. That's what I was replying to.

Obviously, if you lift the cover and things don't stop, you don't put your hands in there. Just as obvious is the fact that the switches should work fine after 12 hours. Mine do and I have over 450 now.

I think your toggle switch is REALLY living dangerously though....LOL..http://forum.carvewright.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Reset]

Taking it day by day Chris... :)

Yeah, I agree... opening the cover, and seeing that bit still spinning at 30,000rpm should be a clear signal NOT to put anything in there! :)

And I do understand that in most all cases, it is generally NOT a good idea to over ride the safety devices designed into the tools. That is unless there is a flaw in the design itself.

While I have not seen or heard of anybody having the following happen to them, I was not going to take the chance of it happening to me again. I did have many of the same issues that others have had with the cover switches. No need to go into detail, as it's all been covered. But what prompted me to replace the switches was, on one occasion, after opening the cover, and in the middle of changing the bit, the z-truck suddenly resumed it's movement! I agree in advance, that had I used the stop button to pause the machine, his probably would not have happened...but it did occur to me at that time, that in the unlikely event that the stop button (or anything else fail) AND the same switch (or even worse the other one) fail in mid-bit change as it had just done... my hands would already be in there.

Remembering to turn that switch off before changing bits in the CW, is to me, no different than remembering to unplug the saw before changing blades. Just basic safety habits.

And I feel much safer knowing the power has been cut, instead of wondering if dust got into the microswitch.

I suspect you would see it from my point of view, if you were changing the bit and suddenly the z-truck just started zipping back and forth again. :) Not a chance I want to take again, no matter how remote the odds.

Tommy :)

[ChrisAlb]

Tommy,

Yep...LOL...that would make me a bit nervous about putting my hands in there and also do some serious damage to any confidence I had as to whether I could ever again.

I must say, this is a first for me to hear about. I know I haven't seen every post in here and I suspect you probably posted about it when it happened. But it's a new one to me for sure.

Although now I'm sure it will be in the back of my mind...:rolleyes:

[Reset]

Actually, I hadn't posted anything about it at the time, as I was having many other issues with my machine in addition to the close cover errors. I too, have not seen or heard of it occurring to any other machine...and as I did have quite a few very uncommon issues with my machine... (all of which were eventually resolved), whatever caused it to happen, I believe was a unique, isolated issue with this particular machine.

So it is my personal preference to have the toggle switch, and serious thought and consideration should be done before anyone else decide to modify the machine as I have done.

I do know of a few who have completely removed (or jumpered) the switche(s) due to close cover issues :(... and that I strongly advise nobody do!

Tommy :)

[Ike]

I have had the issue of opening the cover to stop it so I could talk to my wife. And the motor stopped but it tried to continue to carve. So seeing it was dirty I blew it out some with compressed air. Thinking it would be better then vacuuming, but still the movement of dust causes static electricity. Making the switch act up, funny thing I could open and close the cover a few times and it will work for a time then stop until replacing the switch.

I never vacuum the machine between carving even though the manual can say you can. This is my opinion alone but I think it is static electricity that shorts out the switch. With the machine powered on the static electricity like higher voltage electricity seeks a path of least resistance until it finds a ground. May that ground be you or a grounded source, say a breaker or a grounded switch. Being a weak switch I think it acts as a breaker.

But in this case you can't just reset the breaker. So when I clean my machine I make sure the power is off and then vacuum. I have replaced both switches for the cover a couple times. Is that the reason the switch goes out? Don't know, but it is my humble opinion.

Ike

[Rick P]

I made the Original Post...just so everyone knows...I have never vaccumed the machine for fear of static...and I have used a down draft almost from the start of using my CW. So, after only 12 hours to have this cover issue is disturbing.

I have blown out the CW many times with 40-50 psi air...I wonder if I have blown dust INTO the cover switch??

[Jeff_Birt]

Unless you have a really crappy old shop-vac and or only 5% humidity, vacuuming out the machine will not harm anything. Keep one hand on the metal frame (clean non-painted area) of the machine when you vacuum. This keeps any static charge from building up on you or your vacuum hose. I used this same method for many years when vacuuming up material that was designed to build up a static charge without a single problem.

If you constantly blow out the machine with a lot of saw dust in it you sure could push saw dust into the cracks and crevices. After I'm done carving I hook up a 1.5" hose to the DC and vacuum out all I can then I'll get the rest with some low pressure air. I have never had a cover switch problem in 2+ years.

[Rick P]

Bottom line...this is a "Safety Issue"...and LHR is a target for a lawsuit if their "Safety System" fails after 12 hours of careful use. Does McDonalds "hot" coffee ring a bell?

[cnsranch]

Does McDonalds "hot" coffee ring a bell?


Only if you drop the Carvewright in your lap in the Drive Thru while opening the cover during a carve, and the machine doesn't stop when you open the cover.


On second thought - that doesn't make sense - I'm pretty sure the machine would already be in your lap in this example.

[Reset]

Only if you drop the Carvewright in your lap in the Drive Thru while opening the cover during a carve, and the machine doesn't stop when you open the cover.
On second thought - that doesn't make sense - I'm pretty sure the machine would already be in your lap in this example.

Going out on a limb here, but if your driving around town with the CW in your lap, for any reason... I don't think it's the machine that has the issues. :)

Tommy :)

[ChrisAlb]

Rick P

I have always vacuumed out my machine every 15 to 20 minutes. Never had a problem with static going on 2 years now. As Jeff said, I keep one hand on the machine. I have also never used compressed air to blow it out for the reason you just mentioned. Forcing dust where it shouldn't be.

[Hexe SA]

I used to just lift the cover to stop. I had to replace my switches after 80 hrs. Now I push stop and yes I vacum every 20 min plus after 3 plus hrs of carving I take the sides off and clean that out. Most of the time with a paint brush. Occasionally I use air to blow out but with and adjustable air nozzle set on minimum.
Eva