Forum Thoughts - Patterns

[pkunk]

My 1911 is NEVER unloaded or out of arms reach.:

I was trying to make him feel comfortable, Sarge.

[Gary]

I've been out of the loop for awhile. I wear a P95DC. I'm going to scan it!

Gary

[FINGERS]

A 1911 is something old guy's play with

[rjp736]

Fingers, what's yout your WI location
?

[FINGERS]

Nere Mad town, you know where that is

[GIZMO1D1]

i buy the stuff and give it away............ theres much more crap in this world thats abit more important to worry about.......gezzzzzzzzz

its mine, i bought it, ill do with it what i want!

for crap sakes.. my neighbor needed a shovel but he didnt buy it,, ooo lord...i loaned it to him... there comming to take me away..

i guess my g.e. frige owns all the food i put in it and or..i cant feed my friends from it.!!!they didnt buy it!...

just share what ya got! freakn lil winers.....

[liquidguitars]

scan away.. but china has my $295.00 probe.

Lig

[Mike]

Hey liquid doesn't charge to much for his designs. take a look evryone.

[Jon Jantz]

I've been working on listing about 80 patterns by one of the good contributors to this site (and mine).... should have a bunch up by this weekend and there are some really good ones in there...

I'll let y'all know when they are available.

[RedBear]

This post is slightly long-winded and if you don't care about the issue of copyrights you should skip over it.

Red,

I believe you've confused the actual case with the PTN format (as used in Designer) being owned by LHR AND the ability to create something with it. As you indicated, MicroSoft might well not own something you created using the WMA format, but it sure owns the actual format code and only if it's licensed can you use it with other programs/software. What you create with the software, is your's, but as the case of Apple and it's I-Pod formats (etc.) you can use the format, but only on their gear or other gear that they have issued licenses for (are there any?). Thus, what you indicated is correct, but failed to add the limitations when that creation is still contained in a computer code format.

Bob Hill
Tampa Florida

No, sorry Bob, you're still confused. Whether the file format is copyrighted and/or patented and/or proprietary makes no difference regarding the copyright of your independently created work. Apple has no control over what you do with a purchased or independently created AAC or MP3 music file just because they license or own the file format. I don't know where you would even get that idea. They can't force you to only play your music using iTunes or keep you from using some non-iPod music device. As long as that other device or software understands how to decode AAC/MP3 files, you are home free. Of course if you are using a format that incorporates some form of Digital Rights Management features such that they will only work on a particular device, that is a separate technical issue that has nothing to do with whether or not you own the legally purchased file. You do own it, and you do have the right to move the file around to different devices, but technology may be stopping you from doing so. This is why you shouldn't support the use of DRM. But anyway...

Now, if you were to sit down and write a piece of software yourself for creating files in a proprietary file format, and you wanted to distribute/sell that software to others, you may need to negotiate a license to use those proprietary file formats in your software. But this has absolutely nothing to do with the end user of the software creating their own files to which they will own the copyright and have complete control over distribution or sale. No ifs, ands or buts.

RedBear,
Though your statements are compelling, they are very inaccurate. LHR can own the PTN file format if they choose to register it and can have complete control over distribution of data in that file format. Many companies do this. One of the most obvious is the MPEG format. MPEG-2 and later files require permission from the owners of the file format in order to create/distribute MPEG-2 and later files. Similar capabilities exist with many other formats such as MP3. The CAE industry is filled with software file formats that can only be used with a particular program and data written in that format may not be transferred to any other program or only to registered programs. This is why IGES hung around for so long. It was one of the few file format methods of transferring geometric data that was available for open use.
Though these companies do not own or have any claim to the data that is stored in their particular file formats, they do have control over what can be done with those files. It's another aspect to proprietary rights.
So don't believe that just because you created a data file that you can do anything with it that you want. There may be limitations. Those people asking permission to use this file format are correct in doing so.

You are also quite mistaken, Matthew. Again, the creator of the software application may own the rights to use the file format and refuse to license use of that format to other software makers, but they do not own the data that you store in that format in any way, and cannot restrict you from converting that data into another format, no matter what any software company may have said (unless you signed a contract specifically handing over the copyright of your data to that company). Whether the software maker decides to include features that let you convert the files easily from within the application is a separate issue, but there is absolutely nothing stopping a third party from reverse-engineering the file format in order to read it and convert the data into a different format, as has happened with many proprietary file formats like Microsoft Word's DOC format. Whether you may have experienced an inability to convert your data from some proprietary format because there was no third-party software available or no one had ever taken the time to reverse-engineer the format is a separate issue.

Your MPEG example is another misunderstanding. The restrictions only apply to those who wish to write software that will use proprietary algorithms to create such files, just as makers of MP3 creation software are required to license the algorithm in order to make software that creates new MP3 files. You as an end user have no restrictions with what you do with any files you create with licensed software. Neither the owner of the algorithm nor the creator of the software have any rights over the use, sale, conversion or distribution of any data you create and own the copyright to. Format is irrelevant.

So no, those people who were asking for permission from LHR for using PTN files were not correct, unless they were talking about making their own software for creating PTN files. Even then I'm not sure that LHR would have any say in the matter because in point of fact I am not entirely sure that file formats can even be copyrighted! A quick googling on the issue would suggest that they can't, and there are a lot of examples of proprietary file formats that have been reverse-engineered and are freely and legally used even by competing software applications despite the fact that they are proprietary formats. After all, a file format is really just a description of how to arrange data, usually it is only a creative work that can be copyrighted. They could write down a complete description of the format and that would be copyrightable, but someone could come along and rewrite the description or separately implement the format itself without infringing any copyrights. So the only restriction would likely be, as with formats like MP3, if it were necessary to implement a proprietary (i.e., patented) algorithm in your software in order to create the PTN files. Either way, any restrictions would only apply if you were making your own software.

If I, as an end user, have a legally purchased copy of CarveWright Designer I can use it to make an infinite number of my own PTN files and distribute or sell them for a million dollars apiece from now until heck freezes over, and LHR will have no rights over those files. Period. No limitations, you can do anything with it that you want.

To those who are complaining that this is "splitting hairs" or an unimportant issue, I respectfully disagree. I think this is a very important issue to understand for anyone who is involved with making creative works using a computer, especially if you are basing a business off the selling of your creations.