Copyrights- the law and the truth about pattern ownership

[lawrence]

Allright... I know I'm possibly opening up a can here and I don't have an incredible desire to create enemies or cause angst..... but I want to make sure everyone understands the truth about patterns.

Legally,

If you find a picture on the internet or elsewhere, unless you have specific permission or the item is under public domain, you are not allowed to download and use that picture.

Even if you "change" a picture by turning a 2d picture into 3d or even by adjusting the image a certain percentage, it is still legally owned by the creator- not you!

Most of us have an ethical line that we use to determine whether we feel that we are breaking a moral or ethical barrier, but to be perfectly honest from a legal standpoint, many of the patterns here are not legally the pattern creator's to sell, give away, or argue about. Unless the pattern creator made the original art themselves or got specific permission to do so, using the item is a theft of copyright.

Also, an item does NOT need to be marked with a circled C or be registered to be copyrighted (since 1989).

This does not mean that it is right for someone to sell someone else's items on ebay or elsewhere... but it does mean that there are many (many) cases where we say a pattern is "ours" when it is in fact, not.

Made a pattern that contains a font? Do you have specific legal right to use that font (like you get with the standard fonts when you buy microsoft word etc) If you get the font somewhere else and do not have permission to use that font in a commercial work then this pattern is not entirely yours...

I guess my point is that we need to be VERY careful raising ourselves up on our high horses too much as there are few folks indeed creating their work from scratch. I technically am in the wrong all the time... and I know it... I have my own ethical lines, and I try to stick to them.

If you make your patterns from scratch completely (drawing the art) then I am not talking to you. I suspect, however, that the vast majority of patterns out there are not created from scratch....

It does happen though....

a great example though is this one by Stephen
http://www.patternsuperstore.com/Sto...roduct=7758901
He created this wonderful pattern from scratch... not deriving it from anyone else's picture or work... this means it is HIS to use, sell, etc and if anyone tries to use it, he can go after them for copyright infringement (after he registers the copyright for $35).

If I even post a picture of it here without his permission, I am technically in violation of Copyright laws.

Just because you create a pattern, does not mean that you own the rights to it-- only with specific permission or if you are the original artist of all the components are you within your rights to feel infringed upon.

Just food for thought....

Lawrence

ps- the guys selling y'alls (and my) patterns on ebay are still pretty cheeky and I hope they get closed down--IMHO they are blatantly breaking both the legal and the ethical guidelines regarding copyright.

LDR

[lawrence]

Just one more thing that i wanted to add.... I really really appreciate all the patterns and pattern sharing that goes on here. I dont plan to stop sharing the patterns i make and hope that the above post will be read in the spirit in which it was intended.
Lawrence

[fspearman1]

Very well put Lawrence and well written.
Folks don't realize I think that when you put something out on the internet that it's pretty much fair game. There are a lot of people that make a good living from others work.

[bergerud]

What do you guys think about artwork produced by the scanner? It seems to me that there is a great deal of material for sale in the pattern depot which is not original material. How ethical is it to take a physical art piece made by someone else, scan it and then sell the scanned pattern? This crosses my line. Using the work of others to make money is, to me, a pretty solid line. Sharing these scans, I could live with, but not selling them.

[fspearman1]

Read this from Lawrence's post......

If you make your patterns from scratch completely (drawing the art) then I am not talking to you. I suspect, however, that the vast majority of patterns out there are not created from scratch....

No matter how the pattern is created, scanner or whatever, unless you create FROM SCRATCH, then you don't technically own the pattern.

I and I don't believe Lawrence, are judging anyone. It's a really dark grey area....

I guess it's no different than I have seen a post with some oriental art that patterns are being made from. I also saw what I think are cribbage boards made from that art. Is the maker selling them? I don't know.

In Wood magazine, each month there is a column that states that some of the plans in there can not be used for monetary gain. It also gives the criteria for the statement. Can't think of the exact wording right off.

I suppose that each of us must follow their own conscience.

[jpaluck]

I use images all the time in the background when modeling. Is it my model? Imo yes, But only to an extent, its not my design. Sometimes I will use a few images and may take a little here a little there and then combine them in a model. Sometimes I just make a rough sketch out of my head...but even it was based on something I saw somewhere. I have been making a lot of classic woodworking stuff lately like scrolls anthecus leafs etc...they are timeless designs..my models but not my design. For me it's all hobby so don't get too caught up in the legalities of it all. I just kinda stick to my own ethics with it and have a lot fun modeling and learning modeling. I can pretty much make a fairly decent attempt on most patterns....so for me its important to come up with my own ideas to an extent, besides thats the fun of it all...Im ok using image references in my mind. But to duplicate a model that someone else made I think is unethical. For example, if MT makes a nice POM, which he comes up with a lot of cool ideas, and I go wow thats neat and duplicate it and either give it away or sell it..thats wrong, plain and simple and cheesey as you know what.

I guess an argument could be made as to what is truly orginal. I can see a photo, a painting, or a peice of furniture and snap a pic and use it in the background as a reference and only take a small peice of what I saw and make something completely different. In my mind it's my model but not truly my orignal design. I guess I kinda look at it like I am taking from one artistic medium and applying it to another...enough mind games for me on it

[mathman]

Just one thing I think isn't quite accurate in Lawrence's post: It isn't necessary to have registered the copyright in order to pursue someone for copyright infringement. Having it registered would probably make such a pursuit easier but isn't absolutely necessary.

Then there's the one thing that really throws a gray are on things - the "fair use" clause. But even that doesn't give a person the authorization to pass it off as their own and definitely doesn't give someone the ability to sell it.

There is also something about 'derivate works' in the copyright law which gives some information on copyright issues on derivations but I'm really fuzzy on the details of it.

[dcalvin4]

Allright... I know I'm possibly opening up a can here and I don't have an incredible desire to create enemies or cause angst..... but I want to make sure everyone understands the truth about patterns.

Legally,

If you find a picture on the internet or elsewhere, unless you have specific permission or the item is under public domain, you are not allowed to download and use that picture.

Even if you "change" a picture by turning a 2d picture into 3d or even by adjusting the image a certain percentage, it is still legally owned by the creator- not you!

Most of us have an ethical line that we use to determine whether we feel that we are breaking a moral or ethical barrier, but to be perfectly honest from a legal standpoint, many of the patterns here are not legally the pattern creator's to sell, give away, or argue about. Unless the pattern creator made the original art themselves or got specific permission to do so, using the item is a theft of copyright.

Also, an item does NOT need to be marked with a circled C or be registered to be copyrighted (since 1989).

This does not mean that it is right for someone to sell someone else's items on ebay or elsewhere... but it does mean that there are many (many) cases where we say a pattern is "ours" when it is in fact, not.

Made a pattern that contains a font? Do you have specific legal right to use that font (like you get with the standard fonts when you buy microsoft word etc) If you get the font somewhere else and do not have permission to use that font in a commercial work then this pattern is not entirely yours...

I guess my point is that we need to be VERY careful raising ourselves up on our high horses too much as there are few folks indeed creating their work from scratch. I technically am in the wrong all the time... and I know it... I have my own ethical lines, and I try to stick to them.

If you make your patterns from scratch completely (drawing the art) then I am not talking to you. I suspect, however, that the vast majority of patterns out there are not created from scratch....

It does happen though....

a great example though is this one by Stephen
http://www.patternsuperstore.com/Sto...roduct=7758901
He created this wonderful pattern from scratch... not deriving it from anyone else's picture or work... this means it is HIS to use, sell, etc and if anyone tries to use it, he can go after them for copyright infringement (after he registers the copyright for $35).

If I even post a picture of it here without his permission, I am technically in violation of Copyright laws.

Just because you create a pattern, does not mean that you own the rights to it-- only with specific permission or if you are the original artist of all the components are you within your rights to feel infringed upon.

Just food for thought....

Lawrence

ps- the guys selling y'alls (and my) patterns on ebay are still pretty cheeky and I hope they get closed down--IMHO they are blatantly breaking both the legal and the ethical guidelines regarding copyright.

LDR

how does using a probe come into play ?

[katec911]

So are you saying that when I buy images in the pattern store, I cannot use them on things that I sell?

[Alan Malmstrom]

Kind of a blurry line when it comes to copying even parts of graphic design. I was told when going to school many years ago that you can get ideas from places but that you had to change the design a certain percentage. I think it was like 50% or maybe 80%. But in any case you don't want to plagiarize a well known piece espesially if the peice you make is going to be widely distributed. I believe that you should not use other peoples work for your own gain.

This subject kind of makes my GIMP tutorials stand out as a shining beacon of light. GIMP itself is protected as free source code that cannot be used as a source for others to make money on. By law it must always be offered for free if smebody updates it and distributes it. And there is nothing wrong with some guy like me writing free tutorials on how to use it.


Alan


http://www.patternhelp.com